@batman730 I like your post and the western comment made me laugh! I like westerns too.
Appreciate the reply brother. Honestly was more that way inclined anyway. I know only too well that most of the stuff that sounds sexy, isn’t.
It does take a certain kind of person to be a dog man. I believe I am that type of person. In any event, I’ll get chance to find out. Part of the selection process is you spend several years on a volunteer basis rearing candidate puppies before you ever get a shot at being a handler yourself. It’s a grind, but it does let you take a long hard look at whether it’s for you.
Glad you got a chuckle. I do love me a western.
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Well, if you like westerns and lever guns, then feast your eyes on this piece of
art. However it is one of those things, if you have to ask what it costs, you can’t afford it.)))
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That is one hell of a selection process for a K-9 officer. Certainly should weed out anyone not committed to the job. Saw a copy of this the other day at the USAF security office.
Thought for the day: Mobility equals survival.
The tactical world is no different from any other profession that most cannot agree on much of anything about some universal tactic that will magically save your life. IMHO, it is far better to be mobile than semi-stationary or just not reacting or moving. This came up yesterday, when I had the firing line draw and step to the left in one movement (well, some did). It seems this upset the powers that be and I was told that I was “embarrassing “our Afghan partners. Yeah, whatever.
Look, learn to move, at least side to side in a smooth manner, the only time to be stationary is when you are behind something that will stop a round and, then your thinking should be, “where can I go next for the advantage”
Another View:
At what point is the threat apparent enough that you should draw your pistol? And if you are standing stationary when you draw, why do we call it a “tactical drawstroke?” If you are standing stationary, you are not using tactics.
A tactical drawstroke is commonly taught step-by-step in accordance with drawstroke doctrine. This doctrine is normally slightly modified from instructor to instructor. There is no magic to it, and there is nothing tactical about it. Why don’t we just call it what it is, a pistol draw.
Adding “tactical” to an action or object adds sex appeal but does not change what it actually is.
Remember, if you are drawing a pistol, it is because someone dangerous is directly in front of you. It is an immediate, lethal threat. This bad guy is relying on your predictability and his defaults. His intentions are bad.
So here is my suggestion: Take a short lateral step to the left when performing your tactical drawstroke. It won’t slow your drawstroke down or throw you off balance. It will encourage your thought process (your brain works more efficiently when you are moving) and allow predictability to be minimized. Also, it will temporarily throw off your adversary, disrupting his OODA loop, which will buy you time and increase your lethality. In a gunfight, temporary is an eternity; being lethal is non-negotiable.
Why step to the left? Ninety-three percent of the adult population is right-handed. In addition, most people can’t shoot. Most of them will jerk the trigger, which will lead them to hit low and left. Stepping right or left is not the important part. What matters is movement. Mobility equals survivability.
What department is this? I know some, it could be many or most, police departments don’t have much of a selection process and being a handler is something to put on your CV to help with promotions. Some K9 officers never owned a dog before.
I was looking at the website of a breeder/trainer who provides dogs for LE, as well as civilians, and they had a dog for sale that was returned to them from a department because the handlers were scared of it. So they are looking for experienced handlers only for him.
That reminds me of the movie Open Range with Kevin Costner and Robert Duvall. Costner’s character tells Duvall that once the shooting starts there is going to be a lot of confusion but as long as he kept moving and shooting he would be ok.
Haha, yeah, little different for us.
I’m up in Canada. Our dog section is definitely one of the most difficult gigs to get into in our agency. You spend the first year being a chew toy 3 days a month for free. You are assigned to an active handler who will supervise you and whom you will assist in training his dog.
After a year you get a week long puppy rearing course at our national kennel facility. Then you raise/train a puppy in your home for the first year of it’s life. A supervisor from the section evaluates the dog’s progress at regular intervals. To pass those assessments you need to work the dog for at least an hour or two a day. You do this for free. If the dog passes (many don’t) he goes to a handler and you get a new puppy and so on.
Once a year everyone in the selection program is ranked nationally in terms of time in, fitness test scores, puppy assessments, your supervisor assessments of you etc. The top ranked candidate will get a dog and one of a handful of spots to go for three months training back at kennels, which they may or may not pass. Once in, most guys stay in the section until they retire and it really limits your chances to promote.
It generally takes 7-10 years and I couldn’t even guess how many volunteer hours before you even get a shot at getting in. The overwhelming majority will quit, lose interest etc. Those who are left really wanted it. That said, our handlers are generally pretty good, and this may have something to do with it.
That’s beautiful AND cool!
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Alright, let’s talk grip when shooting pistol for accuracy. I’ve heard everything from firm handshake, light enough to hold an over ripe banana, 70/30, white knuckle then back off a hair. Before I carried a gun for a living I worked hard with my hands, so if I grip hard, it’s hard.
In training it was mostly 70/30 or firm handshake. But then in training it was also about exaggerated slow trigger press.
Recently I’ve been pressing the trigger a lot quicker (but still smooth) and my targets have cleaned up a lot. I imagine this is largely due to leaving less time for the pistol to move between the time I line up the sights and initiate the press and the time the shot breaks. Our triggers are loooong and heavy (12 lbs).
As a result I am reevaluating what I was taught about fundamentals. I’m talking more marksmanship than tactical here. There’s a Firearms Instructor Development Course I want to get on with my agency, and the testing is still marksmanship heavy.
Thoughts?
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I was told squeeze until your hands start to shake, then back off a little. Until reading this I always took that as gospel and never gave it much thought.
I’m also a poor shot with pistols. Not terrible, mind you, but my comparative skill with long guns is much better. I also don’t squeeze rifles until I shake, so I’m thinking that might have something to do with it.
Me too.
You’ve definitely given me something to think about and play around with on my next range trip. I might try easing up just a bit.
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@batman730 I go with the firm handshake but also have issues with occasional hand trimmers. I have to go off of what kind of day I’m having but that was how I was trained. The way I position my arms and my stance help me a lot with my comfort. Also the grip on the gun itself I believe is key because some factory ones that come on them are awful. Girl perspective I know 
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Firm handshake is pretty good for me as well, overall. Playing with my support hand a little right now to find the sweet spot. Grips are issued, so I have no room to adjust there. As far as “girl perspective”, can’t see where that has anything to do with hitting targets. Thanks for the input.
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Yep, there’s a tendency to accept what you hear as gospel. This stuff isn’t one size fits all. Only way to know is to play with it. Targets don’t lie.
Damn, that is one hell of a selection program, the most severe I ever read about. I thought the Marine selection was bad, but, yours is the ultimate. There must have been either a massive civil suit in the past or one of your dogs attacked the Prime Minister to come up with a program of that duration. Good luck with everything on your quest.
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“Grip” is about the most subjective thing in pistol shooting. What works for one will not work for others. Personally, over the years I have backed off from a hard grip, selecting just a solid “base” the pistol “sets” in my hand. I have found that a more relaxed grip in training leads to faster and more accurate shots.
Example: Most Americans have played sports. From baseball to lacrosse, you are taught to grip that stick, this does not transfer well over to pistols. Third County Nationals on the other hand usually have a “limp wrist” and have to be trained about three times longer than Americans. You cannot have a "limp wrist’ on a semi-auto or you are just setting setting yourself up for stove pipes.
I never squeeze the pistol in training, just make a solid framework around the gun, palms correct,fingers aligned, because when you have to do it for real, adrenaline will make you squeeze harder than you want to in the first place. Better to allow a little room for tightening. If this makes any sense.
A female instructor I once worked with stated, it was the same as holding a baby, “not to tight, not too loose”.
Proper grip will allow you to mitigate problems associated with “recoil” , which seem to be an overriding concern with most shooters. Unless you are shooting a .454 Casull, .460 Magnum, .50 AE or maybe a .458 Magnum Winchester the “recoil” should not be a problem .
Pistol ergonomics or grip design is the main factor in any “grip”. There is a hell of a lot of difference in design mechanics between a Smith &Wesson Bodyguard and a CZ-75. Glocks, CZ’s, Browning Hi-Powers, Ruger, Springfields, H&K, FN’s or any of the plastic wonders are easier to “grip” than the smaller "pocket pistols’.
Here is a little chart for “recoil” control, but, what it really shows is some mistakes in grip.
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IMHO, that is just too "hard’. When back in the states, I do a lot of traditional archery, shooting instinctively. Traditional archery has a lot in common with shooting pistols. Grip the bow too tight and your shots will fly left, grip the string too tight and its called “plucking” and with will send your arrow into the hinterlands, you must focus on the target with laser like intensity (same as sights) and your “release” of the string must be smooth, same as your trigger movement needs to be smooth, but, not hard and rough.
Just a suggestion, next time on the range, just start at 3 yards and work on grip only. Which will free you from focusing all your attention on the sights and allow you to find your sweet spot.
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@batman730,
I saw this yesterday over at the dog office. When you wrote about raising puppies this morning, I knew you needed to see this:))
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Hi guys, been reading this thread from beginning to end the last week and it’s been really informative and helpful, so thanks! Wasn’t sure I’d have much to add to the thread, but I think I might have a few bits. Someone was asking earlier about Jocko willink, well he’s legit. Talks a lot of sense on life, leadership and combat and is well worth checking out. Those crass headlines are just that - clickbait headlines. Move past that and you’ll get some great information
Another guy to check out is Tim Kennedy, he has his own podcast which is full of good stuff from someone else who has been there, done that and got the t-shirt. Here’s a link that I think is worth checking out AMP #141 - Tim Kennedy on Being Your Own Kind of Hero | Aubrey Marcus Podcast - YouTube
And Tim Larkin is also another guy who’s worth checking out. He talks a lot about when and how to use lethal force and things, which ties back to the earlier discussion people were having about the guy at the supermarket who got confronted. Larkin gives the example of standing in front of a judge and saying “well your honour, he spilt my drink so I gouged his eye out and bit his ear off” Vs “well your honour, he came in to the restaurant waving a gun and shooting people so I gouged his eye out and bit his ear off”.
My personal background is doing various martial arts since I was 13, with my latest one being the ever popular krav maga. I’m enjoying it, but I do think it comes down to the instructor so for people looking for a new MA to take up, shop around. Don’t be impressed by fancy disarms and locks - personally I hunk locks are more dangerous than helpful. If you’re a small girl you are not wrist locking me.
The gun side of the thread is interesting but I live in the UK and am most likely never going to fire one.
Thanks @idahoe, the thread has been useful and the tips on situational awareness have been great. Trying to incorporate that more and more.
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