T Nation

The Stupid Thread 2

Taliban’s interior minister is on FBI’s most-wanted list, believed to be holding American hostage

Sirajuddin Haqqani, the head of the terror group known as the Haqqani network who is wanted by the FBI, has been named the Taliban’s interim interior minister,

The Haqqani network is known to be a ruthless arm of the Taliban and has been blamed on attacks in the country against coalition forces. The FBI has a $10 million bounty on his head. It is believed that he is holding at least one American hostage, according to the Associated Press.

He will oversee law enforcement in Kabul.

This is one of the most disgusting and outrageous decisions , I have ever read. Who are you going to offend? a fuxxking terrorist? a woke warrior? Are you even Americans? or are you someone who kisses every woke ass you can find? The parents in your school district should protest until you are fired or die of COVID.

Washington state HS calls off 9/11 football tribute because some could be offended, report says
Students at a Washington state high school wanted to mark the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks by wearing red, white and blue at a Patriot’s Day-themed game,a report says

Students at a Washington state high school wanted to mark the 20th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks by wearing red, white and blue at a Patriot’s Day-themed game the day before the anniversary but were refused because the event could “unintentionally cause offense to some who see it differently,” according to a report.

Jason Rantz, a host on KTTH 770/94.5FM, reported that the event was canceled by an unnamed staffer at Eastlake High School in Sammamish “at the last minute.” A student told the show that he was informed that the “red, white and blue was going to be seen as racially insensitive and may affect people in a way that we will not understand and for that reason that we were to change our theme.”

The station posted a screengrab of an email from one of the school’s associate principals to a parent that said she understands the “sacrifice and values our flag represents, but I think they [school leadership] just did not want to unintentionally cause offense to some who see it differently.”

You know, as bad as these decisions seem, we have to consider we are dealing with government employees who just don’t want to deal with any potential bullshit from some crybaby who can find a lawyer and/or incite the twitter mob resulting in them losing their jobs. Just being accused of something like racism can ruin your career. These people spend more thinking about how not lose their jobs than doing their jobs and you really can’t blame them.

Or you could have some judges with a single hair on their ass, who would fine/imprison lawyers bringing frivolous lawsuits

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Well that’s a can 'o worms haha

In total seriousness, there has to be some point where 1 person’s preference and the willingness of the legal system to allow compensation/punishment must be stopped. 10,000 people want to wear a color that denotes patriotism, is stymied by a suggestion that ‘some’ may not fell patriotic?

I’m offended by your trail dog (actually my pick for coolest dog on the site) because I prefer schnauzers, so now you either bike with schnauzer or stay home? Not one iota different.

The irony is that this extreme manifestation of inclusiveness, which comes from the extreme left and its love for communism and socialism (the collective above all else), is an extreme expression of individualism as one person’s “needs” can hold an entire population hostage. Everyone is welcome as long as everyone thinks the same way. That’s their diversity.

I understand because I deal with this crap on a daily basis. The USG is one of the most difficult places to work and navigate this woke terrain, however, this was a national tribute to the victims of 9/11, not some rally for the Confederate dead. Thousands of events, like the one I attended at a local high school had no fears of expressing tribute. The staff, admin, or who ever made this decision are just cowards, not willing to stand up to anything. They certainly demonstrate an excellent example to their unfortunate students.

I read this article and the author sums up my thoughts much better than me.

We are, for better and for worse, not the same country we were 20 years ago. As poignant as all the reminders and memorials for September 11 are to me, I can’t neglect that we are split and fractured. This is very disturbing to me. We are polarized and angry at one another. We are not united.

We all demand tolerance and acceptance. Yet, the worst epidemic we are really facing is the lack of acceptance and the vitriol we have for everyone who does not think as we do.

In an effort to break down walls and barriers and in the name of “progress” we have created new and worse barriers. Lines are being drawn, and for each label that we claim we try to erase, we instead create two more. Dialogue is nonexistent and any form of alternate opinions or viewpoints are canceled and shut down.

In an effort to impede or prevent authoritarianism or fascism, we are ironically becoming more fascist. In an effort to build a “more perfect union” the union between us is less perfect than ever.

We are currently not a united group of states. Not in any way.

On the morning of September 11, Congress was evacuated from the Capitol Building for fear of more attacks. Later that night, when it appeared that everything was over, they all joined one another on the steps of the Capitol and sang “God Bless America.” Republicans and Democrats. All of them together in unison, side-by-side. It was perfect.

I think it’s probably pretty safe to say that that would not happen today. Not only would Congress not do anything side-by-side, but they also wouldn’t sing, and certainly not “God Bless America” as it would probably offend somebody. They wouldn’t even be able to agree on what song to sing without debates, bills, and split votes along party lines. Or, even if they should be seen side-by-side with those other people.

However, this is the lesson of September 11. Unity. The Union. Too many people have paid a terrible price for us to forget that lesson. Too many brave men and women — of all walks of life — have given too much for us to forget, and throw it all away. Is this idealistic? Absolutely

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I must agree to disagree here. The notion of excess patriotism is fairly unique to America. I must say, the prospect of being proud over the country you were born in baffles me, as you don’t choose your place of birth

When I was living in America I didn’t fly an American flag in my room, I didn’t pledge allegiance to the flag either. By all accounts, I wasn’t American; and Americans certainly didn’t think I was one of them either; as was evident by people continually prodding at me as if I was an alien “say this word in Australian! Say shark! Say kangaroo!”

I don’t sing the Australian national anthem either… And I’m certainly not proud to be an Australian… I’m ashamed and embarrassed to be an Australian at this point in time.

Plenty of Australian troops have fallen throughout the years… 60,000 Australian troops fought during WWI to preserve the British Empire (at the time, no British Empire = Australia would have been no more; highly prone to hostile takeover). Still… I don’t associate that with the Australian flag despite the many soldiers who fell trying to preserve this nation by defending the British Empire.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for the troops who risk life and limb for the preservation of democratic principles. But I don’t associate my attitude towards a flag to correlate with my respect for soldiers. And yes… In aware of American history, the people who died to preserve the idealistic conceptualisation of what America is today.

America is a fantastic country, easily one of the top ten places I’d like to live out my days in… But if someone doesn’t like America… Fine… Freedom of speech exists, you can’t pick and choose because this offends you/doesn’t fit your narrative.

You can call her out… Call her a moron like Idaho did, but she should still be free to take down a flag… Because it’s a flag

Sure, it’s a symbol of democracy, freedom, the American dream… It’s a symbol of (imo) greatness, but I don’t think she’s purposefully trying to say “fuck soldiers, fuck those who died”. Woke people generally don’t have that level of insight.

She doesn’t like America… She took down the flag so long as that flag isn’t say… Public property in a museum commemorating American history… Big deal, that doesn’t affect you.

If you start saying “if someone has an American flag on their property they CANNOT defile that flag, disrespect it or take it down…” That’s a fairly autocratic principle…

Now… If she’s taking down the flag and explaining to the kids in her classroom why America is bad or whatever… That"s a problem, she needn’t push her beliefs on children. Kids ought to be able to grow and develop political beliefs independently

If she took down a flag… Not a big deal, if the flag was government property and she took it down, then I’d argue it’s an issue. Either way, I think we are making a fairly big deal out of this… I don’t like “cancel culture”.

I didn’t watch the whole video, I stopped when she said a flag made her uncomfortable… It’s not a Nazi flag or a Hezbollah logo or something… It’s a flag representative of a democratic country. Must be pretty easy for something to upset her if a display of an American flag is enough to tile her up.

Either way, I think we are analysing this unnecessarily. Chances are someone will complain if she’s pushing her political beliefs onto kids, after which she will be reprimanded and told such behaviour isn’t appropriate… The end.

People on here acting as if she’s some sort of super terrorist… Chances are she’s not a bad person, she just has some odd beliefs.

What a joke… New Zeland has become Aus over the past ten years…

They initially resisted the nanny state push, now they’re tightening weapons laws fairly rapidly… They’re becoming increasingly more “nanny state” like, though they’ve partially resisted the authoritarian push as seen within Aussie society.

Though on certain fronts they’re more libertarian than Aus. They still have slightly more lax firearms
regulations

But the nanny state intrusions have been rapidly creeping up over the past 10-15 years in NZ, whereas Australia this shit has been creeping up for the past 25 years…

NZ isn’t quite as much of a police state relative to Aus… You can leave the country/come back. You can’t leave Australia and haven’t been able to for almost two years at this point.

However they’re also very authoritarian re their covid 19 approach (though still arguably a step below Aus)

It’s interesting how media quoted Auckland, NZ as the best place to live in the world… They don’t take into account variables like mental health, freedom of movement etc

New Zeland literally has the highest teen suicide rate in the WORLD… It’s a consequence of living in a yobbo society, aimless, directionless… Obsessed with intrusive policy for “the greater good”, unaffordable housing etc. Both Aus and NZ are TERRIBLE places for young people to live… Unless you’re very, very rich.

This is also the case in Aus… Though the divide isn’t between left/right… The divide is now seen between states of which have each unveiled a nasty, idiotic and headspinningly frustrating nationalistic streak due to covid.

Hell… There’s even divides between communities within the same state (i.e regional vs metropolitan Victoria). Everyone hates one another. Very, VERY toxic society to be a part of. Whenever a lockdown occurs people get pissed off with others from the STATE a single case of the virus trickled out from… Instead of being pissed off at the politicians for taking an authoritarian sledgehammer to hammer in a nail

How the hell do you know that? She has already demonstrated she is total woke, silly ass, flag hating cunt.

Those soldiers died for their country , which was represented by their flag. How do you separate that?

[quote=“unreal24278, post:8439, topic:219703”]
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the troops who risk life and limb for the preservation of democratic principles. But I don’t associate my attitude towards a flag to correlate with my respect for soldiers. And yes… In aware of American history, the people who died to preserve the idealistic conceptualisation of what America is today.

This makes no sense. What are saying?

They died for their country and what we stand for. Idealistic conceptualisation? What the fuck is this?

Sure you can, I disagree with everything you have written here. I will always disagree with liberal cunts who spit on the flag, but, never have the guts to leave .

Its a symbol of our country that has been soaked in the blood of our people. Just because you have no loyalty to a flag, doesn’t mean that everyone else does. If you move to Israel, you going to ignore their flag also?

Bullshit. She knew exactly what she was doing.

What the hell do you think she was doing with the gay flag?

Yes, I am. It is a big deal. She is a school teacher, if she doesn’t believe in the country, why is she allow to teach American children? Why not teach in Cuba or some private woke school with every other POS cancel culture warrior?

Exactly.

Yep, that sums it up.

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What gay flag? What are you talking about? I didn’t watch the whole video. I stopped after she talked about a flag making her uncomfortable.

Agree to disagree. I don’t know who she is, but the woke people I’ve spoken too tend to lack insight pertaining to the constructs they rally against.

Do you REALLY think someone like this who lives in a separate reality/echo chamber separate from the real world thinks about the historical significance behind the foundation of America? This is one of those people who somehow thinks America is the living embodiment of some autocratic shithole like Somalia or Saudi Arabia. I’ve met people like this, people who say shit like “China is great, the atrocious human rights record is fake news #communism”. They’re detached from reality, living in their own little world of fallacious rhetoric.

You aren’t getting through to them… Instead of getting angry, point a finger and laugh at how absurd they are. I spend a LOT of my time isolated and angry, I can’t even travel more than 3.1 miles away from home unless I’m going to work otherwise I risk getting arrested, fined 5,000$… This is going on day 227 of this bullshit…

I never said I had no loyalty… You’re putting words in my mouth. What I said is, I don’t care what OTHER people do with flags so long as it’s their property they choose to meddle with.

Are you calling me a cunt? I apologise if I’ve upset you, that was not my intention. I’m not a liberal btw. Liberal would infer I’m left wing, however I’m neither left nor right… Actually that’s not true

I USED to be fairly left wing, but from watching Australia’s descent into authoritatianism I’ve shifted towards centre right. There are still a few ideologies from the left (abortion, climate change, the ability to be homosexual without risking losing your job, drug decriminalisation, etc), but on the other hand I advocate for the right to bear arms (to a degree… Depends on the type of weapon), I’ve come around on this after watching the police decimate peaceful protestors over here because tHeY cPuLd Be SpReAdInG tHe ViRuS… Also advocate for small government, individualism, deregulation (used to be in favour of the opposite for many constructs… But excess regulation = a batshit nanny state like Aus) and more.

It is interesting you’ve specified you’re independent, but you refer to liberals (left wing) as cunts? That indicates you’re not independent. Independent would infer not advocating for a specific side. Are you referring to the WOKE as cunts/dickheads, or the entire left wing spectrum.

Once again, I apologise if I’ve offended you. Perhaps I’m being insensitive as there is a cultural element to patriotism, I’m not disrespecting that; although I don’t understand it. I’m not proud to be Australian… This country is fucked… Australians stranded overseas are barred entry and have been stranded for 20+ months now, Australian citizens can’t leave either. Why would I be proud to be a part of the country I’m born in IF being a citizen doesn’t grant you many rights over here?

Obviously America isn’t in this situation… But for whatever reason, some people seem to think America is a cesspool of institutionalised racism, human rights violations and political misconduct. If I thought that way about my county, whether I was right or wrong, I wouldn’t be proud to be a part of it.

I happen to think America is obviously one of the better countries to be a citizen of … But for those who harbour alternate narratives, I can understand why they’d think otherwise.

This is why I don’t understand patriotism. You don’t choose the country you’re from, and not all countries are great countries… Thus I can’t understand the logic behind absolute devotion towards a country on the basis of birthplace.

I might do this… If I decide to go down this route I’d try serve in the IDF beforehand, whether I qualify for service is another question.

I’d want to ensure I earn my place within Isreali society if I move.

I don’t think the soldiers who died during WWI were fighting for what Australia has become now. I will always take a day out of the year to mourn the losses of the 60,000 (out of 400,000… That’s more than a 10% mortality rate) soldiers who died, just as I take time out of 9/11 every year to think about the tragedy that unfolded that day despite not being America … But I don’t respect Australia as a country.

Even though I didn’t (always) pledge allegiance to the flag of America… If I was to pledge allegiance to one flag given the choice of Aus or America… I’d choose America hands down.

This doesn’t make me a traitor of my own country, or a cunt because I don’t respect the Australian flag… Rather I respect the principles that America was not only founded upon, but the principles America has upheld throughout hundreds of years.

Australia was descends from a penal colony. Convicts who got out worked as prison wardens, housed other convicts for slave labour etc. Quotes from politicians like “civil liberties… What nonesense!” Are indicative of our societal mentality.

We herd towards uniformity, pandering towards intrusive public policy to attain a common denominator… The greater good

As a result, no… I don’t respect Australia. I respect the soldiers who fought, but not the principles Australia was founded upon. Not what Australia has become

If for whatever reason this woman who took down the American flag lives in some alternate reality wherein she perceives America the way I perceive Australia; then I say she is entitled to take the flag down so long as

A: The flag is her property
B: She isn’t pushing it on anyone else

I don’t agree with her, I think she’s nuts… It’s not as if America is a fucked up country like Saudi Arabia, but I also believe in freedom of speech.

She took down the flag in a classroom correct? This has me asking, is it her flag? If not, then she shouldn’t have taken it down. If it is her flag (her property) then she can do what she wants with it.

As to the Isreali flag… In Isreal/Palestine, protests that were conducted in Aus prior to protests being made illegal, members of the Islamic community would burn the Isreali flag, my brothers friends who attended were spat on, had their Isreali flags yanked from them and torn up.

Does this piss me off? Absolutely, more than you can possibly imagine. BUT, I don’t think said protestors shouldn’t be allowed to defile their own flags they’ve brought (yanking flags from others… Not on)

Would I pledge allegiance to the flag of Israel? Yes… Because I’m Jewish, my history… My race is interlinked with Israel.

I wasn’t American, I clearly wasn’t thought of as an American when I lived there; so why should I pledge allegiance to a flag within a country that not only did I not descent from, but I wasn’t a permenant citizen either. To note, sometimes I did pledge allegiance to the flag…

There are elements of American society I disagree with… But there’s elements of every society I disagree with. All in all, as specified prior, at this point in my life America ranks as one of my top ten preferred destinations if I were to settle down.

Let me ask you @idaho would YOU have loyalty towards the Australian flag given the current situation Australia is in? A country where you’ll be shot with rubber projectiles for protesting… A country where leaving your house is grounds for arrest… A country where you can’t travel interstate, internationally, you can’t visit family members (even dying relatives)… A country where those in palliative care are at times forced to die alone, away from family members because LoCkDoWn… A country where certain nerf guns are considered registered firearms… Where those overseas with a valid citizenship are stranded overseas WITH the public supporting this… A country where social media posts pertaining to anti lockdown rhetoric can result in the police raiding your house and arresting you… A country that is now arresting journalists for criticising state/federal government’s… A country that shuts down parliament, now foots through mass surveillance bills… A country where dual citizens are denied the right to leave if they wish to go to the other country they have a citizenship within less they wish to spend five years in prison

I could give many more examples

Would you be proud to be a part of a country like that? America is nothing like this… But if for whatever reason you harboured a similar sentiment towards America, would you be proud to be an American citizen?

Ok, last time before I go back to work. Not putting words in your mouth, you have said you live in America and now Australia. Yet, you are not loyal to those countries flags. What flag are you loyal to?

No, not you, her.

You have made your position on Australia clear, but, we were not talking about Australia, The post was about a woke cunt’s view on the American flag.

For the past year, I haven’t seen much difference between them.

You didn’t, I just disagree with your post.

No, I don’t support totalitarian regimes . But, again we were talking about the US flag, nor Australia.

Well, I am an American and my race is interlinked with America.

I updated my response to you. Showcasing WHY I don’t respect Aus.

Curious to know what you think :slight_smile:

What flag am I loyal too? If we refer to loyal as “expressing devotion and support”…

Without a doubt, Israel

The only country in the middle east with a respectable human rights record, the only democracy in the middle east… The only Jewish country (despite not being a religious man myself this is important to me)

There are a LOT of people who hate Jews, Israel is a beautiful place with an amazing culture. People are welcoming, friendly (albeit boisterous, tough and loud) and it’s about the only place where as a Jew who doesn’t celebrate Christmas or easter I don’t feel like a fish out of water

I would be proud to call myself an Israeli citizen, I would pledge allegiance to that flag… And I have Isreali flags in my home… Not due to indoctrination from my parents or anything. They’ve generally managed to abstain from pushing their vested political ideologies towards my brother and I… Aside from the religious stuff…

Israel has its problems, like the divorce laws… Disproportionately rising ultra orthodox population who are against the existence of Israel, against serving in the army etc will also cripple the IDF if/when they make up the majority population… Hence why people such as myself need to integrate within Isreali society.

I’d be reasonably happy to call myself an American citizen IF I was a permenant citizen over there… And if people over there stopped poking and prodding at me as if I was an anomaly “say this word in Australian!” “When you moved to Australia, did you come in on a ship?”

I’m sure they were joking with the latter comments, but some legitimately appeared to think Aus was a primitive society where everyone lived akin to how the Aboriginals lived and/or with primitive technology in the outback, I’m not sure where they got that narrative from.

I felt like I didn’t belong for the first six years of living there… The seventh year I made an amazing friend… Then I left…

And I regret coming back… Not a day goes by where I don’t regret the decision I made to come back here…

Still, if an Isreali purchased an Isreali flag and defiled it I’d still think “he/she has the right to do this with their own property”. I’d think the individual was an absolute fuckwit, a disgrace to Israeli society just as I think the woman in that video is a disgrace (albeit a hilarious one)… But I believe in free speech, even pertaining to narratives that I abhor barring terrorism, religious or ethnic discrimination etc.

Most Americans actually descent from Europe btw. But I fully understand (and largely agree) with your narrative.

You actively fought to preserve the principles that make up American society. What I’m asking is… Would you still be proud if you thought of America through a different lens? Akin to what I’ve asked you. If you were Australian, would you be proud to be an Australian given the situation we are currently in?

That’s the fundamental qualm I have with patriotism… Is it logical to be proud of the country you were born in JUST because you were born there? I’m not sure

I think it’s fair to be proud of being a citizen of a country that has fought tooth and nail to preserve individualism, democracy, freedom of speech etc. These are values I hold dear to my heart… These are very important societal constructs (from my perspective), therefore I can understand being proud of America’s heritage

BUT, and I’ve said this like six times now… If, through indoctrination… Or wokism… Or whatever… I saw America through a tainted lense, I don’t think I’d respect the country (but I do… I want to make it VERY clear I think America is a great country)

Canada is also a fantastic country… Mexico… Ehhh… Too much corruption…

Yes, but the concept of patriotism can be applied to any country. We were referring to how she shouldn’t be able to do as she pleases in this context as defiling a countries flag is admittedly unpatriotic.

I bring up other countries as to extrapolate upon my ideology as to why I don’t quote understand the construct of patriotism. You think America is great, I think America is great… Others don’t, why shouldn’t they be free to voice that so long as they’re interacting with their own property?

We are free to point a finger and laugh at them. But making such actions ILLEGAL, saying “you CAN’T do that”

I think that’s a very slippery slope

My point was… Criticising her is valid… Implying she should be liable to criminal prosecution or termination seems like taking things out of proportion.

I think of it akin to Aus… They started imposing criminal sanctions, punishments towards those who went against the grain of the societal status quo. That margin for punishment slowly became wider and wider over time… Now look at Australia

It’s a really… Slippery… Slope

Yes… There are flaws with my world view. Why should the Ku Klux Klan, or youth socialist factions be allowed to host meetings given the destructive consequences their world views have mediated in the past?

Because… I don’t see a better alternative. I’d be okay with saying “okay, we will ban this and this, draw a hard line afterwards”.

But that doesn’t seem to work out, these lines aren’t static and over time the lines we as a society draw pertaining to civil liberties seem to always erode as those up at the top take advantage… Power is an aphrodisiac. Once we get away with curtailing free speech, we will continue to push the envelope until society as we knew it is a shell of its former self.

I take freedom very seriously

It started with punishing those who liked firearms… Now you can’t leave the house and protesting is illegal. See what I’m getting at

There’s a difference between a moderate democrat and a Bernie bro

Speaking of stupid… Did you see AOC’s new dress. Surely that made you laugh

I don’t see a problem with admiring and standing up for noble qualities that a country tries to achieve. The US has proven itself a uplifting haven for the downtrodden/persecuted, charitable in sustaining the poor/hungry in the world, willing to shed the blood on its sons against every kind of tyrant, an exporter of morals/decency through carrying out the Christian message of loving one’s neighbor, and as a factory of inventions that have lifted the human condition. In general, we have pushed classical liberalism for good.

One can refute each point above with real world examples, but it is the selfish, immoral, or power hungry that have subverted our “boy scout” ambitions. They should be condemned, but they are not the reason for patriotism. The lofty foundation goals and everyday man working towards them, are what we admire as patriots.

I am posting this here, not because I think Bill Maher is stupid. Actually, I am beginning to like this guy more and more. Not only is the dialogue funny as hell, but, it touches on the core problems of living with USG woke warriors, even on the range. Remember someone ratted me out that I used the term “female”?

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On a similar note @idaho

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/27/the-pandemic-is-creating-a-nation-of-dobbers-and-all-australians-reap-the-consequences

Societally systemic snitching over here.

This makes me laugh. I’m in absolute awe over how little of a life some must have to feel as if they’re performing an important duty by reporting teenagers having a conversation, standing outside a McDonald’s because they’ve been isolated at home for months and months on end. 5,000$ fine for all of them that they probably can’t pay! Hurray

Either that or as a society we love pandering towards vested moral superiority “hE bRoKe tHe RuLeS! I DiD’nT, i’M gReAt!”