Daylight: The Story of Obama and Israel
Excellent video released for AIPAC conference today on Obama and Israel.
Look, clearly Isreal and Palestine do not want peace.
It’s total bullshit to say one side or the other only wants a peaceful solution.
Consider this…if just 51% of the Israli ‘group consciousness’ wanted peace and 51% of the Palestinian ‘group consciousness’ wanted peace, then there would be a tipping point and the region would move into peace rather quickly. This does not happen because neither side wants it that bad. Period. Whether they fight each other out of cause or habit, it doesn’t matter. Both sides enjoy the conflict more than they would enjoy peace.
The American government should stay out of their battle. WTF! Spend this energy solving some problem at home…unemployment, the national debt, etc.
As for Omaba flip-flopping – it’s not the first time a politician has done that and it won’t be the last. I don’t think this issue will effect his electability one way or the other. American unemployment and debt are far far more important.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look, clearly Isreal and Palestine do not want peace.
It’s total bullshit to say one side or the other only wants a peaceful solution.
Consider this…if just 51% of the Israli ‘group consciousness’ wanted peace and 51% of the Palestinian ‘group consciousness’ wanted peace, then there would be a tipping point and the region would move into peace rather quickly. This does not happen because neither side wants it that bad. Period. Whether they fight each other out of cause or habit, it doesn’t matter. Both sides enjoy the conflict more than they would enjoy peace.
The American government should stay out of their battle. WTF! Spend this energy solving some problem at home…unemployment, the national debt, etc.
As for Omaba flip-flopping – it’s not the first time a politician has done that and it won’t be the last. I don’t think this issue will effect his electability one way or the other. American unemployment and debt are far far more important.
[/quote]
To say that Israel does not want peace is asinine. Same with Palestine. I just can’t get behind that statement. Now it’s almost as hard to get behind a statement to say that just a few radicals can tip the balance, but it’s more logical to me.
Take a look at Israel’s contributions to the world compared to Palestine or frankly any other nation in the Middle East.
I don’t think it’s just that simple to solve the energy crisis or unemployment rate as you make it sound…wish it was, but dropping one problem to focus on another is not just going to magically make it easier.
But why is the Israeli - Palestinian problem an American problem?
Why should America monkey in their borders?
And why can’t Israel solve their own issues? (Because they are unwilling).
Why the hell is Israel so NEEDY for an American alliance anyway?
I submit that it’s not an American problem to solve and the most troubling part of the video is the insinuation that the trouble could be perpetuated because of America’s ‘weak Presidency’. I don’t like how we get involved in any of this.
Granted, it may have been wrong for Obama to claim to be Israel’s best friend on one hand and then chide them on the other. But why did he do this? Did Obama finally recognize Israel’s not-so-peaceful passive-aggressive tendancies? I don’t have the answer, just asking the question. And I’m no fan of Palestine either, but clearly neither side really wants peace.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look, clearly Isreal and Palestine do not want peace.
It’s total bullshit to say one side or the other only wants a peaceful solution.
Consider this…if just 51% of the Israli ‘group consciousness’ wanted peace and 51% of the Palestinian ‘group consciousness’ wanted peace, then there would be a tipping point and the region would move into peace rather quickly. This does not happen because neither side wants it that bad. Period. Whether they fight each other out of cause or habit, it doesn’t matter. Both sides enjoy the conflict more than they would enjoy peace.
[/quote]
Exactly. That’s how WWII started. <51% of Poles and <51% of Germans and <51% of the population of the Soviet Union wanted peace. The 51% theory - what kind of crap is that?
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Why the hell is Israel so NEEDY for an American alliance anyway?
[/quote]
Er…they aren’t. And why doesn’t America stop financing their enemies and meddling in their affairs nudnik?
[quote]
…clearly neither side really wants peace. [/quote]
Not enough Americans want peace with al-Qaeda that’s the problem. The 51%ers are pushing al-Qaeda to the wall. They clearly don’t want peace. If 51% of Americans and 51% of al-Qaeda wanted peace they’d have peace.
How long was World War II? 1939-1945. 7 years.
How long has al-qaeda and US been at odds? Al-qaeda was ‘formed’ around '88 and attacked the WTC in '98. So far, let’s call it 13 years.
How long has Israel & Palestine been in conflict? That’s a tougher question. Since before Christ? Since Post-Crusades around the mid-1200’s? How about since the start of the Zionist movement in 1897? Or do we start from the 6-day War in 1967? All I’m saying is that Israel and Palestine seem to thrive on this balance of conflict.
Anytime I see a wimpering man (Jew or Arab) sobbing that ‘all I want is peace for me and my family’, I call bullfuckingshit. If ALL they want is peace, then they would leave a place that is traditionally in conflict. If they MUST stay in a place of conflict, then they MUST want THAT more than peace. Get it?
I must read up on Israel I don’t understand how people in the U.S. can be so enamored with it and the survival of it.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
How long was World War II? 1939-1945. 7 years.
[/quote]
How many men did the United States mobilise in 1941-42? Answer: 8 million+
Attacked the WTC in 1994.
Regardless. If <51% of Americans want peace there will be peace.
Not really once you define “Palestine” and explain what you mean.
No.
No.
No.
Yes.
No.
[quote]
Anytime I see a wimpering man (Jew or Arab) sobbing that ‘all I want is peace for me and my family’, I call bullfuckingshit. If ALL they want is peace, then they would leave a place that is traditionally in conflict. If they MUST stay in a place of conflict, then they MUST want THAT more than peace. Get it? [/quote]
Have a nice day.
Calm down. This is just a discussion.
Have you read the book “The Tipping Point”? It explains the phenomenon of group consciousness around a problem/conflict finally being changed around one event or time period (tipping point) resulting in a completely different state of being. If you do read the book…borrow it. The first half of the book is good, the second half is boring.
IMO, this is what the Israel-Palestinian conlict needs to bring peace – if they really want it. ENOUGH people (let’s leave 51% out of it since its obviously throwing you off) get so fed up with the conflict that the dynamic and state of being of the entire group changes. It’s a phenomenon that occurs throughout history. i.e. civil wars, abolishing slavery, reducing crime rates, breaking addictions, breaking abusive relationships, etc. It occurs on the large scale (countries) or on a small scale (individuals).
Its not an issue of the arabs wanting peace or Israel wanting peace. It is an issue about the existence of the state of Israel. If you understood anything about Hamas you would know that their whole political agenda revolves around the destruction of Israel in the expulsion of the Jewish people from “palestine”.
Golda Meir summed up the situation fairly accurately: " The truth is that if Israel were to put down its arms there would be no more Israel. If the Arabs were to put down their arms there would be no more war."
I first heard the term 51% when in reference to an addicted individual’s Tipping Point.
Let’s say you are presented with an addict who wants to quit his addiction. Doesn’t matter what it is…cigarettes, alcohol, sex, cough antagonism/conflict cough.
Any admitted addict will tell you of the inner ‘war of nations’.
They are practically schitzophrenic with conflicted inner dialogs of the bully, the victim, the pathetic addict crumpled down in the corner, the negotiator, the self-righteous, the entitled, the ethical, the sabatour, the unworthy, the protector and on and on.
A good, non-enabling addiction therapist may advise: When 51% of you really wants to quit…you will move into the direction of quitting…gaining momentum until the quit is accomplished.
The interesting thing is some addicts will take this news with fantastic encouragement! WOW only 51%? And I can progress to non-addiction? It’s highly comforting and goes far in dis-arming the addiction.
Other addicts will take the 51% idea with great scorn and anger! WTF? I’ve said for years that I don’t want this addiction but fill-in-the-blank is keeping me addicted! They will vehemently argue for the addiction.
But a really good therapist will remain calm knowing that the hard work is only to 51%. And after that it’s a matter of holding the majority and gaining momentum in the direction of non-addiction. So that’s the background on the term 51% – and sorry if it caused any confusion on this thread.
Back to our conflicted friends – the Jews and Arabs. As a group consciousness, part of them wants peace – yes. But others parts of them want other things more than peace – they want to be right and they want their way (who doesn’t?). They want to protect their history (including the conflict with each other) because it’s their heritage and it’s Biblical. And on and on. The bottom line is if they are NOT steadily moving in the direction of peace, then as a group, they want the other things more (rightness, dominance, habit, heritage, history).
What get’s me is when they say-- ‘ALL we want is PEACE’ and I still say – Bullshit, you want other things more.
Unbelievable.
[quote]optheta wrote:
I must read up on Israel I don’t understand how people in the U.S. can be so enamored with it and the survival of it.[/quote]
Because American Jews want to make it an American issue.
‘If America is not against Palestine, then America is against all Jews’
‘If Obama ever criticizes Israel, he must be against all Jews’
‘If one is indifferent toward the State of Israel, they must be against all Jews’
Get the picture?
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
[quote]optheta wrote:
I must read up on Israel I don’t understand how people in the U.S. can be so enamored with it and the survival of it.[/quote]
Because American Jews want to make it an American issue.
‘If America is not against Palestine, then America is against all Jews’
‘If Obama ever criticizes Israel, he must be against all Jews’
‘If one is indifferent toward the State of Israel, they must be against all Jews’
Get the picture?[/quote]
I don’t think you get the picture…at all. We have been allies a long time. When your allies are threatened you’re kind of suppose to get there back. You also lack a lot of insight into that region, at least that’s the way it appears to me.
It’s not just about Jews versus Muslims. It’s more like democracy versus insanity. Reason and logic against ignorance and anger. The state of Israel has extended the olive branch numerous times. They’re left with little choice in the matter. (regarding Palestine and Iran)
gonepostal,
You say that like there has never been Israeli aggression, as if Israeli forces have never taunted, baited and murdered a group of Palestians. I agree that it appears there are more nutjob terrorists on the Palestinian side, but this is not a one-sided deal.
Anyway, we are all big boys and girls here and we can come here and express different opinions – hopefully without resorting to name calling. I believe the conflict goes much deeper. Some of the energy in the conflict is ancient and tribal (Issac, Ishmael, Promised Land). From a group psyche perspective, it’s not easy to overcome. Conflict is practically in their DNA and/or the DNA of the region. How could they possibly live without it?
I’m no fan of Obama but I like the fact that he has reached out to everyone in the region even though it pisses the hell out of the pro-Jewish community. America should not be so beholden to just one side. And let’s face it, the U.S. gives boatloads of money to everyone over there just so we can have an airstrip if/when we need it.
And yes, yes, yes, of course we are friends of Israel. It’s just such a chore sometimes!
No one’s talking about settlements. No one’s talking about West Bank. No one’s talking about Palestinian state. Everyone’s talking about Iran.
Netanyahu’s playing a blinder.
[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Look, clearly Isreal and Palestine do not want peace.
[/quote]
You’d be taken a lot more seriously if you didn’t try to push this silly canard.
The modern state of Israel has, since its inception been more than willing for the arabs to have their own state. The arabs, however, refused and attacked.
The offer of peace is on the table.
The arabs refuse, however, to agree to permit Israel to exist.