The Stock Market is Racist

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think we can all admire Obama for keeping his word. He said he was going to bring change and he did!
[/quote]

Do you believe that Obama had any major role in causing this rout? Please explain your reasoning.[/quote]

Do you believe he didn’t? Please explain your reasoning.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think we can all admire Obama for keeping his word. He said he was going to bring change and he did!
[/quote]

Zeb! Are you a believer now? The Great Depression finally made a believer of you?
[/quote]

First of all we are not even in a recession, so depression talk is premature.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think we can all admire Obama for keeping his word. He said he was going to bring change and he did!
[/quote]

Do you believe that Obama had any major role in causing this rout? Please explain your reasoning.[/quote]

That you are even asking that question implies that you think his hands are clean. Now YOU tell me how an American President who has had three years to do pretty much what he wanted(especially when he had both houses democrat) to stimulate jobs and help bring the economy up to snuff is not responsible for this mess?

Obama squandered his political capital not on creating a good environment for small business, which employs 68% of all workers. But instead he chose to pursue NATIONAL HEALTH CARE! And that demonstrates that he’d rather play out his days in office in la la land showing that he’s a leftist instead of a good President.

Up to this point I said that Jimmy Carter was the second worst modern day President after LBJ. But at this point I believe that Obama has at least tied Carter if not surpassed him. Obama has literally not done one single thing right to help this economy NOT ONE THING!

1- There was never any stimulus to encourage small business (this alone would have most likely turned things around).

2- He has attacked business on a regular basis scaring most would be entrepreneurs and stunting much corporate growth.

3- He has played the class war fare card to the hilt. Which may win elections for democrats when things are bad, but NEVER EVER helps the economy.

4- The economic stimulus that was passed was loaded with government jobs programs (make believe work) and money for his backers, like unions etc. AND it has been a complete FAILURE!

Obama is an unmitigated DISASTER!

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either a recipient of free government money, a union member, a far left constituent who thinks socialism is the answer, or in another fringe group.

Does that answer your question junior?

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]tmay11 wrote:

What do you guys take from the gold/silver sell off?

[/quote]

It’s a combination of people needing cash for margin calls and the relative strength of the US dollar as the eurozone does “qualitative easing” (that is, they are printing money as fast as they can).[/quote]

This.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
First of all we are not even in a recession, so depression talk is premature. [/quote]

Offically, sure. But they are re-computing and all the private companies (who are usually more accurate) say we are in a double-dip.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think we can all admire Obama for keeping his word. He said he was going to bring change and he did!
[/quote]

Do you believe that Obama had any major role in causing this rout? Please explain your reasoning.[/quote]

Do you believe he didn’t? Please explain your reasoning.

[/quote]

This is for Zeb as well

I asked because I am unaware of the intricacies of US fiscal policy - coverage here in the UK is simplistic, biased, and it is hard to find a reliable source. I do not think Obama has a clean pair of hands; on the contrary I think he is powerless. While his policies may have exacerbated a decline, I do not believe they are single-handedly responsible.

The reason? Look globally. All across the world this week there have been catastrophic falls in world stock market. In Germany, where they passed a stimulus package which helped small businesses and are generally considered to have the best economy in Europe, stocks are down massively. In the UK, where they passed a stimulus and have since then adopted stringent austerity policies - something many have since emulated - the FTSE is down 10%. This is true of countries all over the world with varying fiscal situations, who have had stimuli focusing on small business or no stimulus, who have passed austerity measures or not. Nowhere is a safe haven. Hell, Italy keeps passing austerity measures like they’re going out of fashion and it’s not doing anything. This is not just Europe, but the Asian markets. Hell, the Brazilian market on Thursday and South African markets had awful days.

What I’m saying is this is a global financial crisis, where many eurozone countries in particular, some with massive economies (Italy is the seventh biggest exporter in the world) are running the risk of default, which could help tip the economies back into recession. Added to the risk of countries, there is a fear of paralysis in the European bank markets (Lloyds TSB fell 10% yesterday and though I don’t have figures to hand of today, I’m sure they fell by a substantial margin again). And to expect the USA to ignore this and come out unscathed is extremely optimistic, to say the least regardless of the fiscal policies their government pursues.

There’s my reasoning

[quote]Bambi wrote:
The reason? Look globally. All across the world this week there have been catastrophic falls in world stock market. In Germany, where they passed a stimulus package . . . . [/quote]

All the Western countries (and Westernized economies, like Japan) suffer from the mistake that government is the solution. It’s not. It’s the problem, especially the giant bloated “safety nets” that suck money, productivity, and incentive from the market.

Germany, the USA, everyone would have been much better off not passing any “stimulous package.”

All that does is kick the can down the road, where the problem gets bigger.

Just take your medicine, short term, and go.

The policians don’t like this because it deprives them of: (1) the opportunity for graft and (2) power to pass out favors and thus get re-elected.

The landing from this is going to suck. Lots of sacred cows (deductions, retirement ages, medical plans, military expenditures) are going to get slaughtered.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

The landing from this is going to suck. Lots of sacred cows (deductions, retirement ages, medical plans, military expenditures) are going to get slaughtered.[/quote]

This has already happened to some extent in the UK.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
The reason? Look globally. All across the world this week there have been catastrophic falls in world stock market. In Germany, where they passed a stimulus package . . . . [/quote]

All the Western countries (and Westernized economies, like Japan) suffer from the mistake that government is the solution. It’s not. It’s the problem, especially the giant bloated “safety nets” that suck money, productivity, and incentive from the market.

Germany, the USA, everyone would have been much better off not passing any “stimulous package.”

All that does is kick the can down the road, where the problem gets bigger.

Just take your medicine, short term, and go.

The policians don’t like this because it deprives them of: (1) the opportunity for graft and (2) power to pass out favors and thus get re-elected.

The landing from this is going to suck. Lots of sacred cows (deductions, retirement ages, medical plans, military expenditures) are going to get slaughtered.[/quote]

That’s not my point (though to some extent I agree). My point is that this is happening in countries that have created stimuli and in countries where they have not. It’s a global situation.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

That’s not my point (though to some extent I agree). My point is that this is happening in countries that have created stimuli and in countries where they have not. It’s a global situation. [/quote]

One of the downsides to a global economy based on other economies. You are only as strong as your weakest link,

so we are all screwed. unless we segregate ourselves and gain our independence.

that is a global we, each country needs to separate out, solve it’s own problems and work through this mess. It is not the same exact problem for each country so this globalized one solution idea is nonsense

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

That’s not my point (though to some extent I agree). My point is that this is happening in countries that have created stimuli and in countries where they have not. It’s a global situation. [/quote]

One of the downsides to a global economy based on other economies. You are only as strong as your weakest link,

so we are all screwed. unless we segregate ourselves and gain our independence.

that is a global we, each country needs to separate out, solve it’s own problems and work through this mess. It is not the same exact problem for each country so this globalized one solution idea is nonsense
[/quote]

I don’t think a global solution is possible (though I guess I implied it). I agree that the solutions for each country are different What is necessary for Germany is not what Spain or Italy, or the USA would need. But there has to be a move for concerted action, or that’ll just feed the market frenzy

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
First of all we are not even in a recession, so depression talk is premature. [/quote]

Offically, sure. But they are re-computing and all the private companies (who are usually more accurate) say we are in a double-dip.[/quote]

Private companies can “say” whatever they like. The United States is NOT in a recession. As the definition of a recession is having two down quarters of GDP, or a 1.5% rise in unemployment within the past year.

With that said, I do believe that we are headed for a second recession once again. Obama is just about ready to throw away his last hope of bringing the US out of this economic funk and assuring himself reelection.

Bambi, you are talking a bit too much sense in this thread. This is a “I hate Obama” thread.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
First of all we are not even in a recession, so depression talk is premature. [/quote]

Offically, sure. But they are re-computing and all the private companies (who are usually more accurate) say we are in a double-dip.[/quote]

As I explained, anyone can say anything but there are ways to measure a recession. And we are most assuredly NOT in one right now.

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Bambi, you are talking a bit too much sense in this thread. This is a “I hate Obama” thread. [/quote]

Not really Gambit this is more like GIVE ME SOME PROOF THAT OBAMA HAS DONE HIS JOB TO AVOID THIS CATASTROPHE THREAD!

No…you won’t do that. But you will do a drive by meaningless post.

Got it.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think we can all admire Obama for keeping his word. He said he was going to bring change and he did!
[/quote]

Do you believe that Obama had any major role in causing this rout? Please explain your reasoning.[/quote]

Do you believe he didn’t? Please explain your reasoning.

[/quote]

This is for Zeb as well

I asked because I am unaware of the intricacies of US fiscal policy - coverage here in the UK is simplistic, biased, and it is hard to find a reliable source. I do not think Obama has a clean pair of hands; on the contrary I think he is powerless. While his policies may have exacerbated a decline, I do not believe they are single-handedly responsible.

The reason? Look globally. All across the world this week there have been catastrophic falls in world stock market. In Germany, where they passed a stimulus package which helped small businesses and are generally considered to have the best economy in Europe, stocks are down massively. In the UK, where they passed a stimulus and have since then adopted stringent austerity policies - something many have since emulated - the FTSE is down 10%. This is true of countries all over the world with varying fiscal situations, who have had stimuli focusing on small business or no stimulus, who have passed austerity measures or not. Nowhere is a safe haven. Hell, Italy keeps passing austerity measures like they’re going out of fashion and it’s not doing anything. This is not just Europe, but the Asian markets. Hell, the Brazilian market on Thursday and South African markets had awful days.

What I’m saying is this is a global financial crisis, where many eurozone countries in particular, some with massive economies (Italy is the seventh biggest exporter in the world) are running the risk of default, which could help tip the economies back into recession. Added to the risk of countries, there is a fear of paralysis in the European bank markets (Lloyds TSB fell 10% yesterday and though I don’t have figures to hand of today, I’m sure they fell by a substantial margin again). And to expect the USA to ignore this and come out unscathed is extremely optimistic, to say the least regardless of the fiscal policies their government pursues.

There’s my reasoning[/quote]

The rest of the guys have refuted you nicely. I’ll just add that trying to let Obama out of his horrible fiscal policies by blaming the rest of the world is weak…Very WEAK.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think we can all admire Obama for keeping his word. He said he was going to bring change and he did!
[/quote]

Do you believe that Obama had any major role in causing this rout? Please explain your reasoning.[/quote]

Do you believe he didn’t? Please explain your reasoning.

[/quote]

This is for Zeb as well

I asked because I am unaware of the intricacies of US fiscal policy - coverage here in the UK is simplistic, biased, and it is hard to find a reliable source. I do not think Obama has a clean pair of hands; on the contrary I think he is powerless. While his policies may have exacerbated a decline, I do not believe they are single-handedly responsible.

The reason? Look globally. All across the world this week there have been catastrophic falls in world stock market. In Germany, where they passed a stimulus package which helped small businesses and are generally considered to have the best economy in Europe, stocks are down massively. In the UK, where they passed a stimulus and have since then adopted stringent austerity policies - something many have since emulated - the FTSE is down 10%. This is true of countries all over the world with varying fiscal situations, who have had stimuli focusing on small business or no stimulus, who have passed austerity measures or not. Nowhere is a safe haven. Hell, Italy keeps passing austerity measures like they’re going out of fashion and it’s not doing anything. This is not just Europe, but the Asian markets. Hell, the Brazilian market on Thursday and South African markets had awful days.

What I’m saying is this is a global financial crisis, where many eurozone countries in particular, some with massive economies (Italy is the seventh biggest exporter in the world) are running the risk of default, which could help tip the economies back into recession. Added to the risk of countries, there is a fear of paralysis in the European bank markets (Lloyds TSB fell 10% yesterday and though I don’t have figures to hand of today, I’m sure they fell by a substantial margin again). And to expect the USA to ignore this and come out unscathed is extremely optimistic, to say the least regardless of the fiscal policies their government pursues.

There’s my reasoning[/quote]

The rest of the guys have refuted you nicely. I’ll just add that trying to let Obama out of his horrible fiscal policies by blaming the rest of the world is weak…Very WEAK.[/quote]

Where have I been refuted? I am not ‘letting him off’. If the Eurozone was booming, demand in Asia up and the USA slumping, I’d say yes, the USA is in its position as a result of Obama’s poor fiscal policies. But the Dow has slumped while more or less every financial market has done so as well.

Let me put it to you another way. The EU as a bloc exports more than any other country in the world, including China. Combined, its economies are greater than any other nation and it is currently undergoing a crisis unseen in the last 80 years of financial activity. Do you really think that the all-too-possible demise of its third largest member Italy, who, by itself, nearly exports half a trillion dollars worth of items per year, of whose banks most big European countries (UK France, Germany) and, of course the USA have sizeable holdings in debt will pass America by in some way? Do you not think that systemic financial paralysis of Europe, and the potential financial default of the world’s eighth and twelfth largest economies is affecting and will continue to affect America’s financial market at all?

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
First of all we are not even in a recession, so depression talk is premature. [/quote]

Offically, sure. But they are re-computing and all the private companies (who are usually more accurate) say we are in a double-dip.[/quote]

Private companies can “say” whatever they like. The United States is NOT in a recession. As the definition of a recession is having two down quarters of GDP, or a 1.5% rise in unemployment within the past year.

With that said, I do believe that we are headed for a second recession once again. Obama is just about ready to throw away his last hope of bringing the US out of this economic funk and assuring himself reelection.[/quote]

15% of the population is on food stamps. States(6) are cutting the weeks anyone can collect ‘Compo’ because states are going broke. The real unemployment rate is around 16% – its 9.1 because another 200,000 gave up looking for work.

We’re not entering a new recession. We are in a DEPRESSION. And those Washington criminals celebrated those jobs numbers today…they should all be put in prison.

yeah some interesting info on that…

I didn’t realize that 75% USDA’s budget is basically for food stamps…that is aprox 75 billion dollars…

when you think of the department of agriculture, you assume that they are investing in farmers…but in reality, they are just giving people free money…

this is alarming considering that food prices are at an all time high(prices are way above the price floors)…yet, their decision is to simply give people free money(effectively driving up the cost of food for the rest of us)…

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Bambi, you are talking a bit too much sense in this thread. This is a “I hate Obama” thread. [/quote]

Agree.