I don’t know how many here have been following it but there have been a spate of high-profile assassinations in Pakistan
The governor of the Punjab, Salman Taseer, a moderate was assassinated in January
Recently the ethnicities minister, a Christian, was also murdered
In the former case, the murderer was praised. Meanwhile, suicide bombs are a daily occurrence, and the war in Afghanistan looks to be spilling over, with predator drones killing many in Pakistan ('Militants' killed in South Waziristan drone strike - BBC News),especially in the north-west region, which has imposed de facto sharia law and is pretty much a no-go area. even with Musharraf removed, the government looks increasingly unstable. And of course there is always the ego contest with India.
What makes this more terrifying with the emergence of extremist Islam as a political force, is that this is a country with nuclear weapons
I thought this thread was going to break the news that the next season of Jersey Shore will take place in Islamabad…
In seriousness, I agree, the situation is dire and rapidly falling apart. Radical Islamists in control in Libya would be a nuisance. In Egypt they would be a problem. In Pakistan they would be a downright crisis.
Pakistani sovereignty and the fact they are protecting the insurgents that come into Afghanistan is perhaps the biggest problem of the war. I don’t know what level of corruption in the government is involved; or why the Pakistani military allows it to happen. Maybe the military is completely autonomous from the government at this point.
That being said I think we’ve identified 150 insurgent camps, where they rest, train, resupply ect… They would do as they’ve always done and run once the air strikes began; the problem is Pakistani sovereignty and the fact that we can’t launch attacks past a mile over their border.
Anyways, I actually gotta do some reading about this today so hopefully I’ll know something soon.
[quote]spyoptic wrote:
Pakistani sovereignty and the fact they are protecting the insurgents that come into Afghanistan is perhaps the biggest problem of the war. I don’t know what level of corruption in the government is involved; or why the Pakistani military allows it to happen. Maybe the military is completely autonomous from the government at this point.
That being said I think we’ve identified 150 insurgent camps, where they rest, train, resupply ect… They would do as they’ve always done and run once the air strikes began; the problem is Pakistani sovereignty and the fact that we can’t launch attacks past a mile over their border.
Anyways, I actually gotta do some reading about this today so hopefully I’ll know something soon.[/quote]
This has been bothering me for a while now–Pakistan is in theory a major non-Nato ally of the United States. Countries that in 2011 would fall into the same category include Argentina and Australia. We have been hearing for years now that there are numerous insurgent training camps with direct al-Qaeda ties scattered throughout Waziristan–one of which is quite possibly harboring Osama Bin Laden. The Pakistani air force cold erase them from the map in days, but they don’t.
If our satellite imagery found an al-Qaeda stronghold in Australia, that motherfucker would be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. If the Australians couldn’t handle it we would make damn well sure some “non combatant” US troops were deployed in an “advisory” role as they had been in the early days of Vietnam.
But nothing happens. Islamabad sits there with its thumbs up its ass and we just watch it all and wait. It goes to show how little actual power we are able to wield despite our crushingly dominant military superiority in the world.
If our satellite imagery found an al-Qaeda stronghold in Australia, that motherfucker would be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. If the Australians couldn’t handle it we would make damn well sure some “non combatant” US troops were deployed in an “advisory” role as they had been in the early days of Vietnam.
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Not too sure I agree with this part. There’s an alleged al-Qaeda stronghold in the Phillipines and we have done nothing to take it out. I’m sure we could if we wanted to. Either that, or they are too entrenched to deal with. Much like the problem the Russians have with the Chechens.
If our satellite imagery found an al-Qaeda stronghold in Australia, that motherfucker would be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. If the Australians couldn’t handle it we would make damn well sure some “non combatant” US troops were deployed in an “advisory” role as they had been in the early days of Vietnam.
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Not too sure I agree with this part. There’s an alleged al-Qaeda stronghold in the Phillipines and we have done nothing to take it out. I’m sure we could if we wanted to. Either that, or they are too entrenched to deal with. Much like the problem the Russians have with the Chechens.[/quote]
I’m sure we could if we wanted to also–that is sort of my point. We must want to, right? I mean we have lost American lives and spent literally trillions of dollars on the “War on Terror.” Every presidential candidate since 2001 has expressed a strong and presumably sincere desire to uproot and destroy militant Islamists, with a particular emphasis on al-Qaeda. These training camps in Waziristan are supposedly far more directly connected to the people behind the September 11 Attacks than were the Taliban in Afghanistan (not to mention the Ba’athists in Iraq). There seems to be every reason to act.
Simply put, if my enemies were preparing attacks against me on soil belonging to a major ally, I would expect them to be dealt with (or for my ally to allow me to deal with them).
It is difficult to come up with a concrete reason as to why Pakistan has remained relatively untouched in the war on terror, especially in light of the fact that there are certainly large chunks of relevant intelligence and information not available to the American public. I understand that there are countless political forces at play. That both the US and Pakistan are nuclear powers is enough on its own to make any interaction between the two precarious.
Pakistan, like the government in Afghanistan, is playing both sides. Why piss off religious fanatics on your own soil and spark a war when you can placate them and also recieve billions in aid from the US?
It’s a balancing act. The Pakistan people are also the recipients of terror. Yet the Pakistan government is impotent in fighting them.
Possibly because the terrorists can be used as unofficial soldiers in the ongoing war with India?
The war on terror isn’t meant to end, if they do wipe out al-qaeda, then some other ‘terrorists’ will take their place.
Hopefully they won’t be more sophisticated that the cave dwelling al-qaeda or else the US military might be in some trouble.(sarcasm)
I meant, if you really wanted to get Osama or whoever is in charge of al qaeda, you would have by now.
Your gov’t hasn’t caught him, b/c that was never the goal.
You have the most technologically advanced military on the planet, but people that live in caves seem to be able to evade you. I don’t think so. It doesn’t add up.
Thats a pretty interesting article about the U.S. and Pakistani problems as of late, and specifically the CIA and ISI and Raymond Davis (the CIA “worker” who killed two Pakistani men). Bambi, I’m with you, this is starting to get scary, a country with nuclear capabilities with an elementary government and loads of anti-western sentiment. Short of some sort of full cooperation between our two intelligence services, I don’t see how this has a promising end for both nations.
Oh and about the camp in the Philippines, someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe their Constitution doesn’t allow for direct external military aid. I think they allow advisers in an actually advising role, but they will not let us bomb the camp. I think a member of T-Nation has been there as an adviser.
I grew up in pakistan. Horribly, horribly corrupt place. Makes me extremely sad to see. If you want to make anything of yourself, you probably have to fuck someone over a little bit.
The other major problem? There’s no critical thinking in the schools. History lessons = religious propagandist history. Such a sad state of affairs, because the victims of all the atrocities are the innocent, but most of the innocent are also simple, homely people who couldn’t give a fuck about global politics. Most of them never got through school, learned a trade, and just tried to get on with their lives.
Its a real fuck-fest. Good things and bad things about the country. One of the main problems is that people don’t denounce ‘freedom fighters’ since these freedom fighters are typically doing it in the name of religion. And goodness forbid if you are seen to be disagreeing with the religious consensus.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I meant, if you really wanted to get Osama or whoever is in charge of al qaeda, you would have by now.
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That’s the scary part. There are people like you who actually believe this. Of course many people also believe that we never landed on the moon and that Elvis is still alive. Really wake up Matty. Do you think for one second that George Bush would not have brought Osama to justice if he had the opportunity? Or Obama as well? There are many reasons to find him. Not the least of which is that their poll numbers would sky rocket.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I meant, if you really wanted to get Osama or whoever is in charge of al qaeda, you would have by now.
[/quote]
That’s the scary part. There are people like you who actually believe this. Of course many people also believe that we never landed on the moon and that Elvis is still alive. Really wake up Matty. Do you think for one second that George Bush would not have brought Osama to justice if he had the opportunity? Or Obama as well? There are many reasons to find him. Not the least of which is that their poll numbers would sky rocket.
I really wonder about people who think as you do.[/quote]
I swear that it sometimes seems that people from other countries think that being a “superpower” means the US HAS superpowers.[/quote]
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I meant, if you really wanted to get Osama or whoever is in charge of al qaeda, you would have by now.
[/quote]
That’s the scary part. There are people like you who actually believe this. Of course many people also believe that we never landed on the moon and that Elvis is still alive. Really wake up Matty. Do you think for one second that George Bush would not have brought Osama to justice if he had the opportunity? Or Obama as well? There are many reasons to find him. Not the least of which is that their poll numbers would sky rocket.
I really wonder about people who think as you do.[/quote]
I swear that it sometimes seems that people from other countries think that being a “superpower” means the US HAS superpowers.[/quote]
It has!
Its like a retarded Kryptonian.
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Aside from your pathological obsession with The United States of America, you’re actually kind of cute.[/quote]
