T Nation

The Second Republican Debate


#1

I'd like to know who you think will win the second republican debate. Will Trump keep his lead, or will the questions be deeper and more detailed hurting The Donald? Will Fiorina smack Trump down and steal his supporters? Will Jeb Bush make a comeback? Will Rubio or Cruz gain some much needed traction? Will Chris Christie be able to last the entire debate without having a snack?

Will the second debate be more of the same and a continuation of the first debate?

Thoughts?


#2

I first want to say I’m really glad Fiorina is in the debate and think she will have some words for Trump and hope it reflects in the polls… but Trump defies my logic in regards to that.

I don’t think people like Jeb anymore when they see him and comes off bland, so I don’t believe that will change.

Overall I think the debate will go the same as the first except Fiorina will not let Donald do as well. I hope Kasich does well as I’m rooting for him, but thats just the fanboy speaking. Christie will make some loud comments but won’t gain any traction.


#3

I think Trump will do as equally poor as he did in the first debate, but somehow not lose ground.

I am very interested to see how Carson will perform. He seemed a little shaky the first time and settled down toward his final remark.

I hope the format is more debate oriented and not the ten person interview. It would be nice to see Cruz or Rand have a back and forth with one of the RINOs.


#4

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
I think Trump will do as equally poor as he did in the first debate, but somehow not lose ground.[/quote]

That is the mystifying part. I didn’t think Trump did all that well in the first debate but his numbers went up after.

I think (and this is only a guess) the public relates to his off the script plain talk. And the fact that continues to beat the fact that he won’t be controlled as he is not taking any serious money from heavy hitters. Beyond that I have no idea why he is out front with such a large lead.


#5

Attacking Trump is a losing strategy.

The other candidates at the debate will do best by just stating their positions and defending them.

They certainly should respond to any attack from Trump; but it’s doubtful that any response will garner them additional support.

About Fiorina. One thing I realized after listening to a strategist last night is this…her “base” are comprised of mostly Fiscal Conservatives with more moderate opinions on Social Issues (note: moderate compared to the Extreme Right, NOT compared to liberals). She also is pulling from Push’s “Undecided”. (Had to put that in there Push…!)

The only true definable “Trump” follower are Angry White Males…otherwise, he is pulling support from across the Board.

Last point…how do you even define Trump doing “bad” or “good” in the debate when he continues to defy all metrics?

Trump will be Trump…and his numbers will go up.

Mufasa


#6

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Attacking Trump is a losing strategy.

The other candidates at the debate will do best by just stating their positions and defending them.

They certainly should respond to any attack from Trump; but it’s doubtful that any response will garner them additional support.

About Fiorina. One thing I realized after listening to a strategist last night is this…her “base” are comprised of mostly Fiscal Conservatives with more moderate opinions on Social Issues (note: moderate compared to the Extreme Right, NOT compared to liberals). She also is pulling from Push’s “Undecided”. (Had to put that in there Push…!)

The only true definable “Trump” follower are Angry White Males…otherwise, he is pulling support from across the Board.

Last point…how do you even define Trump doing “bad” or “good” in the debate when he continues to defy all metrics?

Trump will be Trump…and his numbers will go up.

Mufasa[/quote]

I agree that attacking Trump is a losing strategy. In fact, there might be a backlash if it appears that several are ganging up on Trump. And he certainly does defy all “metrics” as you have said.

I thought for sure when he commented on Fiorina’s looks that this would certainly be the last straw. I even said to my wife “you don’t run a campaign by picking on a woman’s looks. It is below the belt fighting and it will surely hurt him.” But…nothing happened! He just keeps going up in the polls. I have never seen anything like it.

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

Or…

Maybe it’s the fact that we have mixed entertainment and politics over the years to our detriment.


#7

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#8

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Attacking Trump is a losing strategy.

The other candidates at the debate will do best by just stating their positions and defending them.

They certainly should respond to any attack from Trump; but it’s doubtful that any response will garner them additional support.

About Fiorina. One thing I realized after listening to a strategist last night is this…her “base” are comprised of mostly Fiscal Conservatives with more moderate opinions on Social Issues (note: moderate compared to the Extreme Right, NOT compared to liberals). She also is pulling from Push’s “Undecided”. (Had to put that in there Push…!)

The only true definable “Trump” follower are Angry White Males…otherwise, he is pulling support from across the Board.

Last point…how do you even define Trump doing “bad” or “good” in the debate when he continues to defy all metrics?

Trump will be Trump…and his numbers will go up.

Mufasa[/quote]

I agree that attacking Trump is a losing strategy. In fact, there might be a backlash if it appears that several are ganging up on Trump. And he certainly does defy all “metrics” as you have said.

I thought for sure when he commented on Fiorina’s looks that this would certainly be the last straw. I even said to my wife “you don’t run a campaign by picking on a woman’s looks. It is below the belt fighting and it will surely hurt him.” But…nothing happened! He just keeps going up in the polls. I have never seen anything like it.

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

Or…

Maybe it’s the fact that we have mixed entertainment and politics over the years to our detriment.

[/quote]

Maybe Americans are just ready for a leader/ruler that acts like a leader/ruler. Americans long ago decided that the President should be a leader/ruler, but we have continued to elect folks that play nice/act like pussies/basically govern the same way as the other guy would have. We are not as advanced as we like to pretend, and people still(like on the playground in elementary school) want to follow someone worth(very subjective) following.


#9

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#10

I hope Carly demolished Trump tomorrow. He’s a decent entertainer, but a huge asshat. He’s a just a male Kardashian. His supporters are clowns. All you have to do is look at some of the morons he had behind him in his worthless speech from last night. This whole spectacle is a joke.


#11

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

[/quote]

I think it’s Trump’s straight plain talk you mentioned.[/quote]

…and he’s been “vetted” for the 30-40 years he has been in the Public Eye.

Besides that mop of his (which defies explanation!)…is there really much we don’t know about the man?

In other words…“What you see and hear is REALLY what you will get…”.

Many people find that to be a VERY desirable trait.

Mufasa


#12

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

[/quote]

I think it’s Trump’s straight plain talk you mentioned.[/quote]

…and he’s been “vetted” for the 30-40 years he has been in the Public Eye.

Besides that mop of his (which defies explanation!)…is there really much we don’t know about the man?

In other words…“What you see and hear is REALLY what you will get…”.

Many people find that to be a VERY desirable trait.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Except he has flip flopped on every issue… His supporters really don’t know what they’ll get. His tax plan sounds like Bernie Sander’s plan, he was once in favor of single payer health care, he was once pro-choice, etc… Now all of a sudden he’s a conservative, right.

He’s been vetted and he’s a progressive, but the dumb asses supporting him are eating up the rhetoric (genius on Trumps part) hook, line, and sinker. He isn’t going to get Mexico to build a wall, her isn’t going to deport 12MM people, he isn’t going to renegotiate the Iran deal, and he isn’t going to magically get our people back from Iran before he takes office. It’s fucking non-sense.


#13

It’s not just him either. I like Carson, but he isn’t going to get a 10% flat tax. Not gonna happen…The only non-politician that gets it is Fiorina.


#14

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Many people find that to be a VERY desirable trait.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Yeah, but could it be from less of a clown? Republicans supporting Trump = Dems supporting Biden after he acted like a straight 12 year old in the VP debate last year.

Trump gets the nomination Sanders is next POTUS. The Dems could run a 35 year old heroin addict and beat Trump…

AT this point I’d rather stick my head in a bag of rocks than support establishment Republicans, would support establishment Democrats with the House in Republican/Tea Party control for the next couple of cycles, and would rather have rats eat out my eyeballs than support Trump.

If you need me, I’ll be “throwing my vote away” on a pro-abort that get most of the other issues right, but has zero shot in hell of getting elected.


#15

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

[/quote]

I think it’s Trump’s straight plain talk you mentioned.[/quote]

…and he’s been “vetted” for the 30-40 years he has been in the Public Eye.

Besides that mop of his (which defies explanation!)…is there really much we don’t know about the man?

In other words…“What you see and hear is REALLY what you will get…”.

Many people find that to be a VERY desirable trait.

Mufasa
[/quote]

Except he has flip flopped on every issue… His supporters really don’t know what they’ll get. His tax plan sounds like Bernie Sander’s plan, he was once in favor of single payer health care, he was once pro-choice, etc… Now all of a sudden he’s a conservative, right.

He’s been vetted and he’s a progressive, but the dumb asses supporting him are eating up the rhetoric (genius on Trumps part) hook, line, and sinker. He isn’t going to get Mexico to build a wall, her isn’t going to deport 12MM people, he isn’t going to renegotiate the Iran deal, and he isn’t going to magically get our people back from Iran before he takes office. It’s fucking non-sense. [/quote]

This. Spot on. Dude is a clown of the highest order.


#16

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I hope Carly demolished Trump tomorrow. He’s a decent entertainer, but a huge asshat. He’s a just a male Kardashian. His supporters are clowns. All you have to do is look at some of the morons he had behind him in his worthless speech from last night. This whole spectacle is a joke.

[/quote]

I respectfully disagree with you my friend. While the speech started out very slowly as the first 20 minutes was Trump talking about how great he is. But then he actually had some substantive answers to our many problems from immigration to the Iran nuclear deal to import/export and much more. The problem I am having is that I am not sure that he means it. He was a democrat as most know. Has he seen the light? I’m hoping that’s the case if he is the (gulp) nominee.


#17

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Is our society dumbed down to the point where anything goes?

[/quote]

I think it’s Trump’s straight plain talk you mentioned.[/quote]

…and he’s been “vetted” for the 30-40 years he has been in the Public Eye.

Besides that mop of his (which defies explanation!)…is there really much we don’t know about the man?

In other words…“What you see and hear is REALLY what you will get…”.

Many people find that to be a VERY desirable trait.

Mufasa
[/quote]

I think you are spot on with your assessment. He is a known quantity, a non politician and obviously very confident. So, his followers are thinking “the right man at the right time.”


#18

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s not just him either. I like Carson, but he isn’t going to get a 10% flat tax. Not gonna happen…The only non-politician that gets it is Fiorina. [/quote]

I wouldn’t put too much hope in Fiorina. She lost the Senate race a couple years back when she choked in a debate. Granted she might be better now. But still her record at HP is nothing to write home about. In fact, when she announced she was leaving the stock went up!

But yeah she’d still be better than Hillary (I lie about everything) Clinton. If it came down to it.


#19

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Trump gets the nomination Sanders is next POTUS.[/quote]

I get the fact that you don’t like Trump as I have said repeatedly he is far down the line from my first choice. But, you shouldn’t let your distaste for the man color your political judgment. There is no way that a 74 year old Socialist is going to beat Donald Trump. Sanders will lose the female vote to Trump (hard to believe now but it will happen should each capture the nomination of their respective parties) Bernie projects a horrible almost feeble image. As for his message, people are not going to buy it. He will lose by a wide margin to Trump or any one else that the republicans nominate. But you don’t really think that the democrats will allow old Bernie to actually win do you?

In addition to that when Hillary is put up against Trump in national polls it is about even. And as I said Hillary has more bad news coming her way which will not help this already very poor candidate. If her name as Martha Smith everyone would be wondering why she is trying to be President…the woman has NOTHING going for her. Absolutely nothing!

Okay, neither of us are big fans of Donald Trump. But I don’t see how he can talk about getting rid of government red tape, cleaning up the immigration problem being a strong gun rights guy etc…and then flip flop after he’s elected. I know he’s definitely scary as a candidate. But I would bet, if only for reelection purposes he will follow his talked about plans.

And he really is better than Curly, Larry or Moe err Biden, Bernie and Hillary that the dems have come up with.

Like I have been saying it WILL be a republican year. Unfortunately, we might not get our first pick for the nomination.


#20

I’m hoping my man Rubio will light it up on Wednesday night. Still hoping for a Rubio/Kasich ticket. Granted, it’s not looking too good right now but it is still early.