T Nation

The Second Presidential Debate


#1

My thoughts.

Trump took huge gut shots ; threw out the "red-meat" he needed to; and undoubtedly fired up a base that has not wavered one inch.

Clinton most likely reassured her base, which is about what she needed to do.

The problem? Trump needed to broaden his base in order to (IMO) to win the General Election.

One last thing; I am always "uneasy" about predicting elections...and especially this one.

It is just hard for me to say what people will actually do when they push that touch screen.


#2

Whoooof. Savage, was savage.

Trump kept his composure and really came out swinging. Hillary more of the same but sense was rattled under the surface


#3

Did you see her face after Trump said khan would still be alive had he been president?


#4

I think I must have watched a different debate than you guys... I thought Trump looked exasperated and like he hadn't slept in days. One of the maybe two policy points he made was that he would employ a "special" attorney general for the express purpose of attempting to put Hillary in jail. He also at one point said he was unaware of his own running mate's stance on certain issues, that they hadn't discussed it and that he disagrees with him, lol.

Of course, more of the same from Hillary. But I don't think it was a good night for Trump at all.


#5

Trump was subdued at first, which was necessary and good for him, but the tried to turn it into an episode of reality television, which doesn't help him. He needs uncommitted voters to start thinking he's viable, and he did nothing last night to advance that ball. At times we was silly and atrocious, but he'll always be that. A deeply insecure man, he needs to throw red meat to his troglodyte supporters in search of more adulation.

But he was terrible on the question as to whether he had ever sexually assaulted women before, and his admission that he and Pence hadn't talked was damning.

Clinton was unspectacular, but pretty solid. She looked competent and dependable to the uncommitted voter, which was her goal, as Hillary is banking on her base - uninspired up to this point - to now show up with enthusiasm to pull the lever against trainwreck Trump.

Clinton won, but Trump didn't melt down as bad as expected, so it was closer than I thought it would be.


#6

I generally agree with TB.

Trump also seemed to never really answer the question being asked and revert to just attacking Clinton. I know that fires up his base, but there were mulitple times where the moderators had to re-ask the question because he couldn't stay on topic.


#7

They desperately need to cut the mic of the person not answering the question off. This should not be negotiable any more.

That, and to begin every question with "without mentioning your opponent...."


#8

I can only assume he genuinely has no policies to put forward, or at least the ones he has can be written on a post it.

Stop ISIS (some how), make America great again (whatever that means), and his entire health care plan was to open state borders up and then magically provide health care to the poor while simultaneously cutting their taxes big league. Oh and crooked hilary.

The way he speaks about things gives me the impression that his knowledge of the world comes entirely from sensationalist news head lines.

From what Kasich said earlier this year he wanted his VP to be in control of foreign and domestic policy (aka being president) and he would be in charge of "making America great again" ... the guy has nothing and he knows it.

Now... he is not a politician and likely has never needed to know this stuff which is totally fine, but that's why they have reality TV and real estate. now that he is hair away from the office it's very scary honestly.

I can't believe I have to vote Clinton but Donny can't be trusted with nukes and will likely offend every major world leader on the planet in his first week. He has zero impulse control, and his impulses are horrible


#9

Yep. Although really I think it's even more sad and fatuous than that: he gets absolutely everything from TV. Doesn't read a damn thing. If it isn't mentioned on TV, he has no idea what it is. (He even said once that he got his military advice from watching "the shows," whatever the hell that means.)

Anyway, the debate seemed kind of meaningless to me at this point. He didn't implode, which is a positive for him, but any time he speaks publicly he damages himself on a more fundamental level. The guy can barely communicate his native language. He just sort of sniffles and rambles through a wordstew of free association until he backs ass-first into some totally incoherent "point" he doesn't understand and didn't plan on. My favorite was when he obviously had no idea that Clinton wasn't SecState during the Ghouta attack/chemical weapons deal. Also, I was hoping the mods would follow up his SCOTUS answer by asking him his favorite Scalia opinion. Does anyone believe that Donald Trump could soecifically refer to even a single one?

The election is slipping away from him. He was already close to finished before the "pussy" tape. I suspect that and the graded-on-a-curve draw last night will combine for a further 2-3-point slide by Thursday. At that point, and with the rumored n-bomb footage on the way, it would take a Clinton catastrophe for the GOP to turn its fortunes around.


#10

Did we suddenly remove the Trump handicap and no one told me? Because if not that was by far Trumps best performance.

I'm guessing people here have already forgotten the Primary and first debates. The fact that he was able to come out and string together complete sentences other than "Make America Great Again" shows miles of growth.


#11

You do realize that 90% of American probably dont even know what or where Ghouta is right?


#12

Of course! (I'd say 93-4, really.) That was my favorite moment (along with Trump lying about Russian hacking/bombing in order to avoid having to criticize the Kremlin -- like a good little Putinite stooge). The important stuff for the voters will be stylistic and amount, I think, to a wash. Given that Trump has been headed down the toilet since Friday (since a week and a half ago, really), he needed a lot more than a wash.

Speaking of Ghouta, I owe you a post! It's been a very busy month; hopefully the tide of deadlines abates soon.


#13

TRUMP: First of all, she was there as secretary of state with the so-called line in the sand, which…

CLINTON: No, I wasn’t. I was gone. I hate to interrupt you, but at some point…

Red line speech - 8/12
Clinton SOS 1/09 - 2/13
Chemical attack - 8/13

He is technically correct on being SOS when issued, but maybe he knew, maybe he didn't hehe
By not responding with a date, I would venture that her denial made him second guess his fact.

edit - He is miserable to listen to, without a teleprompter.


#14

The debates aren't about issues, they're about the candidate showing off his demeanor, how quick they're on their feet and getting a feel for their personality.

If you expect someone to give you a breakdown of their plan on a complex issue such as healthcare or Syria in 2 minutes or less that makes you the moron. If you really cared, you would have went onto the Internet onto their website and checked it out for yourself.

That being said what do online polls say as to who won the debate? If you are going to post polls, post ones where you users just click and it's generated please no CNN polls


#15

Good catch on technical grounds, but he immediately said she was right, so clearly he'd been talking about the Aug. - Sept. 2013 events.

Or, alternatively, he had no specific idea what he was talking about, and could not in a hundred years give even the vaguest summary of the actors and actions involved in the "red line" controversy. This is doubtless the real answer, but even your very technical reading necessarily implies that Trump didn't know when Clinton was SecState and/or when the events he himself was trying to cite happened and/or which officials/actors were involved in them at the most fundamental Wikipedia sort of level.

There isn't any Scenario C in which Trump had a handle of the facts; it's neccessary, given what he said, that he didn't.


#16

This is appallingly dumb. Unscientific e-polls are meaningless. Worthless. You want them because alt-right Trumpkins, who don't tend to have anything better to do, stuff the box and generate fake victories for Mumbling Shithead. You're literally saying "I don't want the useful results: I want the results that are good for Trump."

The two scientific polls I'm aware of named Clinton the winner.


#17

I expect a coherent summary of points that will answer the question that was asked. That makes me a moron?


#18

And you just want establishment generated information so you can see a Clinton win.

Doesn't have to be from breitbart or any conservative sources, pick ones from sites that are liberal oriented.


#19


What politics in 2016 comes down to. Unreal.


#20

Oh I forgot about the magic spells that keep Trumpkins away from garbage polls on liberal websites. Silly me!

Unscientific polls are worthless. All the garbage unscientific instant polls had Trump winning the first debate, whereas the scientific ones had him losing handily. And guess where the traditional poll average headed over the following week? Toward the scientific debate snapshots. Because, again, internet-based straw polls are trash. Literally meaningless.

None of this matters anyway, because even if we give Trump a draw, his weekend was a fucking catastrophe. And more videos are apparently forthcoming. And he was headed toward a loss anyway.

It's going to be fun watching you realize that, no, alt-right conspiracy theories about establishment globalist cabals will not shield you from the reality of this election. Either the Kremlin can furnish Assange with an email implicating Clinton in murder, or the election is over.