[quote]hueyOT wrote:
to put it simply, a perfectly performed deadlift will look a lot like a stiff-legged deadlift, except from the ground.[/quote]
HAHA!! You are such an idiot
[quote]Florida Titan wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
to put it simply, a perfectly performed deadlift will look a lot like a stiff-legged deadlift, except from the ground.
HAHA!! You are such an idiot[/quote]
insults aside, i recommend you read this article, and you can learn some pointers about how to deadlift properly. don’t think that i take all T-Nation articles at face value <i have seen more than one T-Nation article with bad or irrelevant information that would serve only to mininform/confude the average trainee>, but this article is well written by a dude who clearly has received proper instruction in how to deadlift.
from the article:
[b]
4. Hips High: This may seem awkward to some, but when you pull you want your chest up and your hips high at the same time. I use this example for lifters struggling with the concept: Is it easier to do a half-squat or a full squat? This example usually gets the wheels turning and they realize what I?m talking about. The body is in a more biomechanically efficient position if the hips are high from the start. We aren?t doing reverse squats here; we’re trying to pull heavy weights, right?
- Don’t Sit in the Bottom: Research has shown us that the stretch reflex is all but negated after approximately four seconds. Some lifters may sit in the starting position for several seconds before they actually begin. Big mistake!
Not only do you lose the benefits of the stretch reflex, but you also can’t maintain any air when you’re in the bottom. Try it out for yourself: take a big breath and then sit in the bottom position for a few seconds. For whatever reason, it’s very hard to maintain your IAP (intrabdominal pressure) and ITP (intrathoracic pressure). Doing so can decrease not only your stability but your strength as well.
[/b]
these pointers are what i was explaining, and they run contradictory to some advice that you are sharing.
in this article, there is good information that people should adhere to. and again, you really should stop giving out advice on training technique lest someone actually listen to you.
also, it’s clear the OP does NOT need to ‘sit back’ in order to keep his back straight. the reason he rounded his back was because the weight was too heavy for his erectors, or he simply wasn’t focused enough, or a combination of other reasons.
but again, it is clear that the OP, upon viewing his video, is able to set up with perfect technique, and keep his back straight and hips high before initiating the lift. sitting back would have not made any difference in the straightness of his back. if anything, sitting back will weaken his pull and cause his back to round even more.
so for other people’s sakes, stop sharing bad advice.
lastly, i can guarantee you the OP will not be taking your advice, as it is clear that he already knows how to deadlift.
Who wrote that article?
[quote]Florida Titan wrote:
Who wrote that article?[/quote]
wow, how lazy are you? click the fucking link if you want to know who wrote it. if you’re too lazy and dumb to simply click a link to an internal article, how can you expect anyone to take you seriously about anything?
and this is after you stating that the squat and the deadlift are essentially the same movement, only differing in the placement of the weight…
i mean, i’ve heard that shit before, you’re not the first person to parrot around that dumbass comparison, but it suggest something about your training background and knowledge that you would take in such a nugget of ‘information’ and accept it as truth, and then pass it onto others.
and who cares who wrote it? the points made in the article are about ten times for accurate and clear than any post that you’ve made in this thread.
i will not continue posting in this thread in response to you, either. i’ve spoonfed you enough information. listen to it if you want to <i promise you the advice i’m giving is good to go>, or keep doing the same dumbass shit that you’re recommending others to do, as well.
i do think, however, that the majority of forum-goers in here will be smart enough NOT to take deadlifting tips from you.
[quote]Florida Titan wrote:
Who wrote that article?[/quote]
Ooops, i just flamed you thinking I linked the article. It’s written by Mike Robertson. Judging by what he wrote in the article, he knows how to pull properly.
here is the link:
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
Florida Titan wrote:
Who wrote that article?
Ooops, i just flamed you thinking I linked the article. It’s written by Mike Robertson. Judging by what he wrote in the article, he knows how to pull properly.
here is the link:
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=295prec2[/quote]
You’re a dumbass.
I have plenty of experience with powerlifting. In three years I went from a 520 total @ 148 to a 1340 total @ 198. This includes a 500 raw deadlift. I know my shit. I’ve been to plenty of meets and the ones that lift like the guy in the video do not last very long in the sport.
Ever see Ed Coan deadlift? It’s like he’s sitting in a chair at the beginning of the lift he drives forward with hips. He’s not wrenching it up with his back.
You obviously don’t know much about strength training if you are posting information from Mike Robertson over say…Louie Simmons or Dave Tate.
They are slightly more qualified IMO
[quote]Florida Titan wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
Florida Titan wrote:
Who wrote that article?
Ooops, i just flamed you thinking I linked the article. It’s written by Mike Robertson. Judging by what he wrote in the article, he knows how to pull properly.
here is the link:
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=295prec2
You’re a dumbass.
I have plenty of experience with powerlifting. In three years I went from a 520 total @ 148 to a 1340 total @ 198. This includes a 500 raw deadlift. I know my shit. I’ve been to plenty of meets and the ones that lift like the guy in the video do not last very long in the sport.
Ever see Ed Coan deadlift? It’s like he’s sitting in a chair at the beginning of the lift he drives forward with hips. He’s not wrenching it up with his back.
You obviously don’t know much about strength training if you are posting information from Mike Robertson over say…Louie Simmons or Dave Tate.
They are slightly more qualified IMO
[/quote]
congrtulations, your numbers are good. but of course these are equipped lifts, right? remember what i was saying earlier, than in general, people who really know how to lift hold higher standards for their lifts than what is required to get a legal lift at a competition.
from a Dave Tate article:
[b]Mistake #10: Starting with the hips too low
This is the king of all mistakes I see. Too many times lifters try to squat the weight up rather than pull the weight. Think back to the number of times you’ve seen a big deadlift and thought to yourself how much more the lifter could’ve pulled if he didn’t damn near stiff-leg it. I see it all the time. Someone will say, “Did you see his deadlift?” Then the other guy will comment, “Yeah, and he stiff-legged the thing.” Am I telling you to stiff leg all your deadlifts? No, not at all.
All I want you to do is look at your hip position at the start of the lift when you pull and watch how much your hips move up before the weight begins to break the floor. This is wasted movement and does nothing except wear you out before the pull. The closer you can keep your hips to the bar when you pull, the better the leverages are going to be.
Once again, next time you see a great deadlifter, stand off to the side and watch how close his or her hips stay to the bar throughout the pull. If you’re putting your ass to the floor before you pull, your hips are about a mile from the bar. You’re setting yourself up for disaster when the lever arm is this long. This is also the second reason why lifters can’t get the bar off the floor. (The first reason is very simple: The bar is too heavy!)
You need to find the perfect spot where your hips are close to the bar, your shoulders are behind the bar, your lower back is arched, your upper back rounded, your belly full of air, and you can pull toward your body. Nobody ever said it was going to be easy, but then again, what is? (Definitely not training in a commercial health club?.)
[/b]
here is a link to the article:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459744
keep in mind mike robertson’s article’s are featured on dave tate’s elitefts.com website. he’s not just some chump.
look, i will concede that under certain circumstances, some lifters will benefit from lowering their butts down. there is no doubt that some lifters do keep their hips too high. but remember also that in general, for lifters of most dimensions, it’s best to raise the hips as high as possible while maintaining the arch. of course there will be slight differences based on differing dimensions between different lifters. the best deadlifts resemble stiff-legged deadlifts/romanian deadlifts, with the arched back, NOT rounding.
louie simmons recommends the same shit.
peace.
hueyOT, I like your style.
It’s never ok to try to be a dick. But after repetitively spoon feeding monkey’s, after a while, it just happens. And when your an educated dick, it’s much more justifiable. You even complimented him on his total. That’s commendable.
And by the way, I think that Dave Tate article is the best deadlifting article there is for people that have a decent amount of experience. I’d forgotten about that article, good work.
Where in Ontario are you from?
i’m in ottawa. you?
Kingston man. Goin to school here.
Hey all!
Wow, This has turned into an interesting thread! Sorry I haven’t posted, but it has been freakin busy! We had a BIG structure fire yesterday morning and I worked my butt off so I am shot right now!
Thanks for the advice, and I am definitely aware that I rounded my back and I am positive that it was because the weight was too heavy. I am really glad I video taped myself though, because I didn’t realize how drastic my rounding was.
Now I know what my weak points are, and I can hammer away at them. Today I am going to do some strongman event training, and I will catch you up on my log tomorrow.
Thanks for the support!
Here are my last couple of workouts.
11/24/06-UB Pull
A) Rope Climbs (about 20’)
1,1,1,1,1
B) Rope Chins x 5,5,5
c)Fat Bar V-Handle T-bar rows
90x8, 100x8,8,8
D) One-Arm DB Row w/Fat DB
70x6,6,6
E) One-Arm Barbell Curl
45x6,6,6,6
F) Face Pull w/Mini Band
10,10,10,10,10
G) Bent-Over Rear Delt Raise
10x12, 12.5x12,12
[quote]firefighter82 wrote:
Here are my last couple of workouts.
11/24/06-UB Pull
A) Rope Climbs (about 20’)
1,1,1,1,1
B) Rope Chins x 5,5,5
c)Fat Bar V-Handle T-bar rows
90x8, 100x8,8,8
D) One-Arm DB Row w/Fat DB
70x6,6,6
E) One-Arm Barbell Curl
45x6,6,6,6
F) Face Pull w/Mini Band
10,10,10,10,10
G) Bent-Over Rear Delt Raise
10x12, 12.5x12,12
[/quote]
wow, you do all that pulling in one workout? that’s a lot of volume for a given workout, if you ask me.
but if you can handle it that’s great. it shows great conditioning.
let me ask you this, are the exercises at the end of your workouts performed with decreased weights/reps due to accumulated fatigue from the earlier exercises?
asked another way, would your performance on your final exercises in a given workout be improved if they were instead performed at the beginning of that workout?
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
firefighter82 wrote:
Here are my last couple of workouts.
11/24/06-UB Pull
A) Rope Climbs (about 20’)
1,1,1,1,1
B) Rope Chins x 5,5,5
c)Fat Bar V-Handle T-bar rows
90x8, 100x8,8,8
D) One-Arm DB Row w/Fat DB
70x6,6,6
E) One-Arm Barbell Curl
45x6,6,6,6
F) Face Pull w/Mini Band
10,10,10,10,10
G) Bent-Over Rear Delt Raise
10x12, 12.5x12,12
wow, you do all that pulling in one workout? that’s a lot of volume for a given workout, if you ask me.
but if you can handle it that’s great. it shows great conditioning.
let me ask you this, are the exercises at the end of your workouts performed with decreased weights/reps due to accumulated fatigue from the earlier exercises?
asked another way, would your performance on your final exercises in a given workout be improved if they were instead performed at the beginning of that workout?
[/quote]
hueyOT:
The fatigue at the end of my workouts really depends on how I structure the first couple of exercises. The majority of the time, my initial exercises are done at high intensity, and lower volume. So usually I still have some juice left on my last sets. As a side note, I think this has dramatically improved since I started having a workout drink. Also, I play it by ear, I always have a plan going in, but if I am shot by the time I get to the end, I will adjust things around to manage my fatigue. Hope that answers your question!
[quote]suuuperdave wrote:
firefighter82, i’ll race you 500. 6’ ~185-190lbs
best pull is 440, but that was a year ago august, and my squats, box squats, cleans, have all gone through the roof in that time.
pulled after watching the video of that guy pulling 405 for 30 singles the other day, i did 415 for 10 singles in a similar fasion…it’s no 30, but it was relatively easy.
And your form isn’t all that bad in the video…i’m not saying it was good, but don’t beat yourself up that much…it was heavy, you do what you need to get it up. i wouldn’t make a habit of rounding your back like that, but anyone who has experience knows that it does happen if your not focussing on it.
the deadlift is not a squat. the deadlift is as much a squat as a clean is a goodmorning. you start flat back, end in a standing position, it’s the same isn’t it? LMAO. if you drop your hips, and squat the weight up, you’ll never pull anything impressive. it’s a good exercise, but it’s not conducive of pulling big weights. [/quote]
suuuperdave:
You’re on bro! See you at a quarter ton!
hueyOT and Florida Titan,
My two cents on this debate! First, IMHO Mike Robetson is more than qualified to write the article. He is VERY respected in the strength training community and I have never read a bad word about him. Second, I think when considering “perfect” form, it is imperative to consider lifer individualities. Each lifter is different, and while one may be bio-mechanically set up to DL with their hips low, another may be set up to DL with their hips higher. Obviously, just like program design, there are certain principles that need to be held constant, like not rounding the back, but beyond those principles, the individual lifer is what determines “perfect” form. Just my two cents!
Here is my workout from today. Tomorrow I am on duty so it will be my off day, and Thursday will be a pulling day.
11/28/06-UB Press (slightly lower volume)
A. Push-Press
45x10,10, 95x8, 135x6, 160x4, 185x2
B. BP w/bands
Minix8, +50x8, Avgx8,8, +20x8
C. One-Arm Braced DB Press
35x10, 37.5x10
D. One-Arm DB Bench Press
55x8, 60x8
E1. Plate-Raise
35x10,10
E2. Lean-Away Lateral
20x10, 21.25x10
F1. Skull Crushers
75x8, 80x8,8
F2. Band Press-Down
Green x 10,10,10
G. Shoulder Horn
16.25x8, 16.87x8, 20x8
I was feeling pretty beat up today so I took a little longer to warm up, and knocked off a few sets. Afterwards I felt great! So this was a good workout!
[quote]firefighter82 wrote:
hueyOT and Florida Titan,
My two cents on this debate! First, IMHO Mike Robetson is more than qualified to write the article. He is VERY respected in the strength training community and I have never read a bad word about him. Second, I think when considering “perfect” form, it is imperative to consider lifer individualities. Each lifter is different, and while one may be bio-mechanically set up to DL with their hips low, another may be set up to DL with their hips higher. Obviously, just like program design, there are certain principles that need to be held constant, like not rounding the back, but beyond those principles, the individual lifer is what determines “perfect” form. Just my two cents![/quote]
well said, but keep in mind that that i never stated otherwise. maybe i wasn’t being clear, but i was commenting on YOUR video. and in your video it it clear you know how to set up perfectly for your deadlift.
placing your butt lower wouldn’t be of any advantage to you.
what’s your push press technique look like? do you keep your elbows up high at the bottom of the lift, and keep them tucked in throughout the lift?
also, how much leg drive are you using and do you push your head through your arms as you press it up ?
just curious.