The Right Giving Credit to Obama?

I think this last election cycle could be an anomaly given the influx into the South from the NE. That said, if the Democrats continue to ignore working clsss concerns we could see a true shift. Obamacare hurt quite a few working class (not poor)* people in this country through increased premiums, and for that and various other reasons Trump managed quite the upset. Time will tell whether he can keep it. My concern is that he (and those yelling most loudly against him) also represent an increasing polarization which I think is only going to lead to chaos. I don’t see Democrats holding Obama (or Hillary) responsible anymore than I see Trump Republicans holding Trump responsible (though establishment Republicans are far less enthralled with him). I’ve edited to add that until that changes political discourse is only going to get worse.

  • This is a distinction I’m afraid is largely lost in these types of discussions.

I don’t think Virginia is considered part of the South, and especially not the Deep South. What I think ED is referring to, and is most often thought of when you say the “Deep South” or even the South, are the dark red regions here:

The surrounding red (like Texas and Florida) are geographically in the South, but when you say you live in the “South” or “Deep South” no one thinks of San Antonio or Miami, but rather Alabama, Mississippi, etc…

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So, did the South also just lose North Carolina? Meh, F them. They’re poor . . . Can we have Montana? They wear funny hats like the Texans. This is fun.

ETA: i just had to leave the comment about Virginia alone. I’ll just shake my head.

No backtracking here. The Deep South is poor. The Deep South is conservative. To the extent that the science of demography exists, these are facts, not opinions.

That may be your point, but it is/was not mine. A ZIP code by ZIP code analysis is far too granular–all trees and no forest.

Can you imagine engaging in civil discourse? Because quite frankly, I’m at the end of my rope putting up with your rudeness. I’m sincerely hoping you’ll tone it down.

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I find your refusal to back up your own actual words telling. You backtracked into “Deep South” and have continued to hedge. I don’t really care what you think of me. You already labeled me, and everyone around me, above. You can take you false offense at my rudeness towards your ignorance and lack of analytical skills and shove it. Whatever “Healthcare” work you do, it’s a good thing you’re looking down your nose at all those people you are supposed to serving.

I agree wholeheartedly that sweeping statements are bad. That being said, statistically, “the south” is dominated by republicans, while also having the highest dependency of federal money and social programs.

I’m by no means saying republicans are more often using federal money and social programs, simply that Trump had a much larger chunk of the social program users pie than traditional republicans. As such, Trump stands to lose more than past republicans by taking shots at social programs.

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I can’t say I’m surprised by this response. (Although it is striking for someone to acknowledge they were rude, but dismiss as “false” the offense taken at their rudeness.)

You’ll understand if I steer clear of you henceforth.

My point exactly. And if the HC reform bill ultimately enacted by his admin is anything like the one passed by the House, one of the things he stands to lose is the Deep South.

I don’t forsee him (or any Republican for that matter) ever LOSING the deep south. Maybe losing ground for the national popular vote, but as long as Dems can be demonized in the gun control realm, it’s probably a perma loss area.

That being said, where Dems need to pick area back up is in the NE, where HRC should have carried, Trump instead won. Since the NE section of the country isn’t as swayed by the 2A argument, this will be the area where he loses ground. Luckily, the dems shouldn’t need much more than that (which is ignoring all the manufacturing votes he’s going to lose when the jobs don’t come back).

Factor in dems dominating young people, with the old people Republicans dominate dying off every year, and you start to see a decent shift.

Why? You know that no one thinks of Virginia as “The South.” When’s the last time you heard someone refer to Robert E. Lee, J.E.B. Stuart, or Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson as Southerners?

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Ok, but wasn’t the originally question/issue about health care benefits created through legislation (generally federal benefits)? And even in Southern states that have diverse politics depending on cities, etc., which political body is most responsible for deciding which of the federal benefits its citizens will or won’t receive (that are optional)?

State legislatures, right?

Actually presidential Democratic revenge is even simpler than that. Texas and Florida are Rep strongholds. As they get more and more Hispanic (left leaning) the Reps won’t be able to carry them any longer. If the Reps can’t either convert or deport all those hispanics there will be a tipping point. No more Rep presidents… ever. Their growth rates and reproduction rates are way higher than whites.

Texas has so far been able to make it work because it is so prosperous there’s room for everyone in the tent. Florida lucked out in the fact that Cubans oppose many big government policies for obvious reasons.

This is a (fun and light-hearted) thread all on its own perhaps, but I take issue with that map representing the South. It needs to add back Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky, and drop Florida. Florida is not a Southern state. Also, whoever wants Arkansas can keep it.

:slight_smile:

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That’s a fair point to discuss. Enjoy

Florida is part of the South. It’s certainly changed, but it didn’t suddenly get up and walk away. I get the point though. It is interesting how much several areas of the south have changed. I consider most of that good progress though, and it’s helpful to recognize what’s here.

This actually reminds me of a ribbing I took from a Manhattan native fried of mine several years ago. Deadpan, he told me that the first time he stepped foot in NJ he thought to himself “this must be what the South is like.” I responded that no, that mess is the Northeast’s to keep, leading to a vehement objection from our coworker who lives in Hoboken. All in good fun.

I agree, it’s difficult to see a Deep South state going blue in a POTUS election in the foreseeable future. But it’s not nearly as difficult to see Trump blowback costing the GOP congressional seats in those states, as well as weakening the GOP’s stranglehold on state-level elections.

This is a very important point. Every month, ~50K US-born individuals of Hispanic heritage turn 18, and thus become eligible to vote. Texas may well be ‘in play’ in 2020 (especially if the Dems put a Texas-born person of Hispanic heritage on their ticket).

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That’s the other side of that coin. Even if they don’t lose those states electoral votes, they’re bound to lose at least a few in Congress. Not that it really matters all that much apparently. Even with full control of all 3 houses republicans can’t seem to get shit done.

I’d be interested in seeing a breakdown of hispanic vs non hispanic and the growth rates of non minority republicans in the south over the last 5-10 years. It’s very possible this past elections efforts of demonizing hispanics to this degree was due to them seeing the writing on the wall regarding the south’s demographics.

Or, you know, not liking people who’s first act in this country is the commission of a crime. Not liking the inherent unfairness of a tax dodging shadow economy. No… it’s because republicans hate brown people… clearly.

Particularly all those Cuban Republicans in Florida. Issues are hard. Broad generalizations are much easier.

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I’m not talking about demonizing illegals. I actually agree with most of the anti illegal rhetoric.

I’m talking about the increasing number of people that are treating anyone with Hispanic heritage as being lesser. I’ve only seen the change personally in a few of my family members, but more and more people are jumping on the “hate all Hispanics” bandwagon.

Haven’t seen that even on right wing sites. Maybe you should cut ties with your family, they sound awful.

Hispanics are actually perfect Republicans (broad brush warning). Traditional family values (get married THEN have babies), work ethic, entreprenuerial spirit, civic involvement, pride in your heritage etc…

Are there some bad apples (MS13, Cartels)? Sure. But awful people come in every color. I think the solution to all this nonsense is rather simple. The problem is getting past the “Republicans Hate Brown People!” messaging of dems. It’s effective.

  1. A simplified and enforceable guest worker and green card program. Make the rules clear and dead simple to follow, then enforce them.
  2. Punish businesses who hire illegals.
  3. Help Mexico and South America not be shit holes. If there’s a stable country with opportunity their entire working age population won’t be flooding here.
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