The Reality of Presidential Debates

Kevin,
Are you serious?

Pointing fingers is not leadership.

Everyone expected Kerry to have more debating experience. He’s been blowing hot air for 20 years.

I’ll stick to substance every day of the week.

W. was looking forward. He was leading.

Look on www.drudgereport.com and checkout the falsehoods that Kerry made last night.

I laughed out loud when Kerry stated, “I’ve had one consistent stance on Iraq.” What an insult to our intelligence.

Jeffr

[quote]Whenever something needs to get done, the Bush’s call on James Baker.

Remember the recount?

That man has dignitas oozing from his pores. I think even RSU/Lumpy/DanH/Todd would agree that his is a formidable presence.
[/quote]

James Baker is a dirtbag. Baker is representing the Saudi Royal Family, against lawsuits from the families of victims of 9-11 (The Saudis help fund terrorism. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. There is evidence that the Saudis are connected to 9-11 to some degree).

Interesting that JeffR thinks James Baker is someone to admire.

Arnld:

Actually, the economic down turn started approximately 6 months before Bush took office!

Was this Bill Clintons fault? No! In fact, in many ways Bill Clinton was a good President. However, as most know economic cycles run in certain ways inspite of who is President.

As to your vacation comment. Is a President ever really on vacation? They used to accuse both Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagen (and many others) of taking many vacations. In reality they simply change the venue of where they are working.

Actually, no one took more vacations than Ike, and the economy was never better than under his two terms. Did he do that, or was it simply a positive economic cycle?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Arnld:

Actually, the economic down turn started approximately 6 months before Bush took office![/quote]

There is a difference between a downturn and a huge deficit, I will assume you are aware of this however unable to recognize it. The amount of money we spent on the Iraq War alone could have put every college student through 4 years of college for free. The war on drugs has cost over 100 billion dollars and there are still just as many junkies except now our jails are filled with 75% of the criminals on non-violence charges (many just marijuana charges) and we continue to pay for thier food and living expenses with our tax dollars. Bush is literally throwing away our tax dollars on these unreasonable things (although this is my own opinion we are still in a huge deficit and i’m trying to state that this deficit is not justified) We are not spending all this money on a cure for AIDS, we are not spending it on fixing the environment we destroyed. Keep in mind that you can’t even eat tuna without worrying about mercury poisoning and Bush signed a bill that states the coal burning plants which create all this free mercury in our atmosphere do not have to clean up thier act for another 10 years while they can afford to reduce emissions it would cut into thier profits. Thank you president Bush. I also want to apologize for my rambling and getting off topic, I will try to get back on the subject at hand.

[quote]
Was this Bill Clintons fault? No! In fact, in many ways Bill Clinton was a good President. However, as most know economic cycles run in certain ways inspite of who is President.![/quote]

They do run in cycles but the point I was trying to make was that Bush just wastes money and puts us in even more of an unnecessary deficit.

[quote]

As to your vacation comment. Is a President ever really on vacation? They used to accuse both Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagen (and many others) of taking many vacations. In reality they simply change the venue of where they are working.![/quote]

Bush really was on vacation. We all know, Bush lovers too, that he does not make the decisions. He is no more then a puppet, a corporation diguised as a human being.

[quote]

Actually, no one took more vacations than Ike, and the economy was never better than under his two terms. Did he do that, or was it simply a positive economic cycle?[/quote]

I didn’t say the economy was bad because he took vacations, if the economy was good I wouldn’t care if he banged my sister much less vacation. He just does not make an effort to do anything for me or you. He does what he is told by the people who financed and established his power. And those people sure as hell don’t give a shit about me or you. But to be honest Kerry isn’t that much better. So don’t think I am preaching for Kerry, I am actually rather sad at the loss of my patriotism and enthusiasm for this country. I do not respect either candidate and it does bother me. It bothers me because our government is not run by the people but instead big business. And every year it seems we are losing more rights, more privacy (i.e. the Patriot Act). These are right we might never be able to get back. I think I totally highjacked the thread but my brain has diarhea. If anyone wants me to continue we can start a new post to debate in. (ZEB)

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Arnld:

Actually, the economic down turn started approximately 6 months before Bush took office![/quote]

There is a difference between a downturn and a huge deficit, I will assume you are aware of this however unable to recognize it. The amount of money we spent on the Iraq War alone could have put every college student through 4 years of college for free. The war on drugs has cost over 100 billion dollars and there are still just as many junkies except now our jails are filled with 75% of the criminals on non-violence charges (many just marijuana charges) and we continue to pay for thier food and living expenses with our tax dollars. Bush is literally throwing away our tax dollars on these unreasonable things (although this is my own opinion we are still in a huge deficit and i’m trying to state that this deficit is not justified) We are not spending all this money on a cure for AIDS, we are not spending it on fixing the environment we destroyed. Keep in mind that you can’t even eat tuna without worrying about mercury poisoning and Bush signed a bill that states the coal burning plants which create all this free mercury in our atmosphere do not have to clean up thier act for another 10 years while they can afford to reduce emissions it would cut into thier profits. Thank you president Bush. I also want to apologize for my rambling and getting off topic, I will try to get back on the subject at hand.

[quote]
Was this Bill Clintons fault? No! In fact, in many ways Bill Clinton was a good President. However, as most know economic cycles run in certain ways inspite of who is President.![/quote]

They do run in cycles but the point I was trying to make was that Bush just wastes money and puts us in even more of an unnecessary deficit.

[quote]

As to your vacation comment. Is a President ever really on vacation? They used to accuse both Bill Clinton and Ronald Reagen (and many others) of taking many vacations. In reality they simply change the venue of where they are working.![/quote]

Bush really was on vacation. We all know, Bush lovers too, that he does not make the decisions. He is no more then a puppet, a corporation diguised as a human being.

[quote]

Actually, no one took more vacations than Ike, and the economy was never better than under his two terms. Did he do that, or was it simply a positive economic cycle?[/quote]

I didn’t say the economy was bad because he took vacations, if the economy was good I wouldn’t care if he banged my sister much less vacation. He just does not make an effort to do anything for me or you. He does what he is told by the people who financed and established his power. And those people sure as hell don’t give a shit about me or you. But to be honest Kerry isn’t that much better. So don’t think I am preaching for Kerry, I am actually rather sad at the loss of my patriotism and enthusiasm for this country. I do not respect either candidate and it does bother me. It bothers me because our government is not run by the people but instead big business. And every year it seems we are losing more rights, more privacy (i.e. the Patriot Act). These are right we might never be able to get back. I think I totally highjacked the thread but my brain has diarhea. If anyone wants me to continue we can start a new post to debate in. (ZEB)

JeffR yes I’m serious. Bush said the same thing over and over. All he said was it’s hard work and Kerry flip flops. I’m not buying his rhetoric anymore. Yes Kerry might not be the best president, but Bush has proven to me that he isn’t presidential material. He also looked like kind of an asshole while Kerry was speaking.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
…I think I could eat alphabet soup and shit better criticism of Bush than this.

[/quote]

Can I borrow this? That’s one of the funniest retorts I’ve heard in a long time.

As to all of you who think “umm’s” and “OOh’s” and “stuttering” makes a damn bit of difference, shame on you.

Who cares?

As to body language and slouching here is my answer: While Kerry was sequestered with his slimey advisors thinking of his latest dodge and worrying about his skin tone, G.W.B. was hugging and comforting Florida Hurricane survivors. Any wonder why he might be emotionally drained?

He was being the President.

It’s what you do, not what you say. It is EVEN LESS IMPORTANT how you say it.

It’s too bad that you think that by pointing fingers and attacking, that Kerry showed leadership.

Can you imagine being part of the Iraq coalition today after hearing Kerry denigrate/forget your contribution. The “coalition of the bribed,” “puppets,” etc…

I respect your right to choose who you will vote for. I trully do.

However, being excited because one candidate has less pauses in his answers, is an example of superficiality that makes me sick.

Hey, I don’t like talking about Kerry.

Let’s talk more about W.

JeffR

Kevin:

Bush isn’t presidential material? I think it’s a travesty of our election system that someone such as Kerry is even being considered for the position of commander in chief! I mean here is someone who exited stage left outa Vietnam as soon as he could from three purple hearts ( none of them required him to go on light duty for even one minute). as soon as he got back he joined the veterans against the war and made up lies concerning what he witnessed there.

Not that I hold it against him for wanting to come home early from war, like Ollie North said “there have always been guys in every war who want to go home”. And as everyone who has ever served will tell ya, officers alway’s get medals a hellavalot easier than the average grunt does. I really doubt that a buck seargant in an infantry unit would even have been considerd for the medals he recieved. Hell, even Ollie North turned down purple hearts to stay with his marines. So when the going gets tough, kerry gets the hell outa dodge and lets others stay to try and finish the job. Just like he wants to do in Iraq.

So I’m getting sick and goddamn tired of folks thinking that he is some sort of national hero.

The facts are that he caused alot of unneccesary suffering to the troops that were still serving in vietnam and the POW’s that were still locked up in camps by spilling his lies on the Senate floor in 1971. All the atrocities he was supposedly witness to, it would have been his legal and moral duty to report those findings up the chain of command as a Navy officer commisioned by the United States Congress.That officially makes him a war crimminal! not a hero. And if he actually did witness these atrociries and didn’t report them, that must mean he must have been afraid of what would happen to him if he had.

That would make him a coward.

So, is Kerry a war criminal, or a coward?

I can’t decide, all I know is that I would be uncomfortable with him at the helm of our millitary.

It’s not that Kerry had less pauses, it’s that Bush came across as a moron. Now I don’t think Bush is a stupid man in terms of all people, but I do think he is one of the dumber presidents we have ever had.

How about some words by someone running for president who was not allowed to speak at the debate.

http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=233

Break the bi-partisan system.

I think bush should wear his cowboy hat at the next debate. Wouldn’t that be awesome! The whole cowboy thing really freaks out the whole of europe.

Better yet, maybe tote a six shooter to scare all the liberals!

Nader:

Yesterday’s man, a relic of a bankrupt culture always acting like the kid who gets frozen out of the kickball game.

Nader will stay on the fringe where he belongs.

Arnld:

You are a man with strong opinions and emotions. I can respect that. While I disagree with you on virtually everything that you have stated.

  1. Do you have proof that President Bush does not make his own decisions, and is in fact a “puppet for corporations?” No, I guess not, but it is fun to type it huh?

  2. Do you think that the money spent so far (120 billion) on the Iraq war would have been used to finance college tuition for students? I think it’s better spent growing democracy in a place that needs it most.

  3. Do you advocate legalizing drugs, as you do not like the money spent on the drug war? By the way every administration has spent big in this area. Some drug laws are harsh I admit. However, the last thing we need is more dependency problems. Don’t you think millions of alcoholics are enough? maybe not…

  4. Do you know how long it takes “coal burning” plants to actually retool in order to become more efficient so that they are polluting less? And do you know how many thousands of hard working men and women would be laid off in the process? No, I guess you don’t. Hey…just think of the way you could bash Bush if thousands of “hard working” people had lost their jobs!

Finally, I disagree that “Bush has not done anything for you or me.” He has given me a nice tax cut and I am using part of the money to start yet another business that will employee people who will then have money to spend and fuel the economy…make sense? What do you suppose people do with money that they don’t have to give the government? Hmm let me see…they can spend it. That helps the economy. They can save it. That helps their personal wealth and long term financial security. Yea…shame on Bush for lowering taxes…what a bad guy!!

I know you want to believe all of the cliches about President Bush and the republican party, but you need to look a bit deeper than the typical left wing rhetoric to get your facts.

I have an idea: Vote for Ralph Nader…All around nice guy, and corporate bashing do gooder!

Maybe come out and rope a steer? Ha ha

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Arnld:

You are a man with strong opinions and emotions. I can respect that. [/quote]
…unless it’s RSU – he’s just a kid.

ZEB – what makes Iraq “need democracy most?” In other words, what is/was unique about Iraq that gives it priority over other non-democratic states?

you think the legal status has ANYTHING to do with a person’s choice to use or not?

[quote]
4. Do you know how long it takes “coal burning” plants to actually retool in order to become more efficient so that they are polluting less? And do you know how many thousands of hard working men and women would be laid off in the process? No, I guess you don’t. [/quote]
But evidently you do! Lucky for us, you’ll surely be sharing this information, no?

[quote]
Finally, I disagree that “Bush has not done anything for you or me.” He has given me a nice tax cut and I am using part of the money to start yet another business that will employee people who will then have money to spend and fuel the economy…make sense? [/quote]
Seriously ZEB? Your tax cut was SO BIG that you could actually allocate A PORTION of it to put toward “yet another” business? If so, must be nice. Who will you hire in your new business, though? Will they be someone who is currently poor and received jack shit from the Bush tax cuts? Cause that’s the only way your point comes close to holding water.

and what is deeper? – ZEB’s opinion!

That’s what needs to happen at this point for your boy to win, huh?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Arnld:

You are a man with strong opinions and emotions. I can respect that. [/quote]
…unless it’s RSU – he’s just a kid.

ZEB – what makes Iraq “need democracy most?” In other words, what is/was unique about Iraq that gives it priority over other non-democratic states?

you think the legal status has ANYTHING to do with a person’s choice to use or not?

[quote]
4. Do you know how long it takes “coal burning” plants to actually retool in order to become more efficient so that they are polluting less? And do you know how many thousands of hard working men and women would be laid off in the process? No, I guess you don’t. [/quote]
But evidently you do! Lucky for us, you’ll surely be sharing this information, no?

[quote]
Finally, I disagree that “Bush has not done anything for you or me.” He has given me a nice tax cut and I am using part of the money to start yet another business that will employee people who will then have money to spend and fuel the economy…make sense? [/quote]
Seriously ZEB? Your tax cut was SO BIG that you could actually allocate A PORTION of it to put toward “yet another” business? If so, must be nice. Who will you hire in your new business, though? Will they be someone who is currently poor and received jack shit from the Bush tax cuts? Cause that’s the only way your point comes close to holding water.

and what is deeper? – ZEB’s opinion!

That’s what needs to happen at this point for your boy to win, huh?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Nader:

Yesterday’s man, a relic of a bankrupt culture always acting like the kid who gets frozen out of the kickball game.

Nader will stay on the fringe where he belongs.[/quote]

On the contrary, Nader belongs right there in the mix. I, personally, would be further in his corner if I didn’t feel like a change was so crucial.

Nader’s got great, original ideas, and he expresses them well. He, too, would crush GWB in a debate.

RSU:

I think Iraq is in the center of a very tumultuous area of the world. Bringing democracy to that country would surely have a positive effect. Are there other areas where this would also be helpful? Yes! However, I consider Iraq to be one key area.

I do think that “the legal status” has an impact on people using drugs. I’m surprised that you don’t. If drugs (whatever drug) is made legal then they will be more accessible and in a free market probably much cheaper. If something can be had easier and is cheaper, I would say more people would use them. Does not mean they won’t use them if they are illegal. Simply means that the more readily available the more people will use them.

Next: I don’t have to hire someone who was “poor and recieved jack shit from the Bush tax cuts” in order to help myself and the economy. You see RSU, when a new busness opens it’s doors that means that people have been hired. When people are hired they can now contribute to the economy to a greater extent than before.

Perhaps those people quit a job where they were making less money to come to work for me. That means that they now have more money to contribute to the economy, and growing the tax base as well. Also, their former employer now has to hire additional help to fill their old slot. Perhaps those people were “poor” prior to that job and now have a new start. It’s all good! More people working and more people making more money. That’s what happens when there are tax breaks.

I am not trying to be insulting (seriously) however, when you get a job, or start a business, these things will become very clear to you.

As to my Nader remark, I think that Arnld reads like a Nader supporter. If you look at another of his posts you will see that he posted a Nader article.

I think “my boy” will win. I do believe that we had this discussion about how much I think he will win. I stand behind those comments. Why? Do you think Kerry will win? Do you have a deep conviction that he will? If so, how deep is your conviction. Last time that we communicated it wasn’t very deep. Have you had a change of heart?

I think I got through my post without using sarcasm. Can you say the same thing? Stop acting like a kid and others on this forum will not treat you as “just a kid.”

Zeb, you may want to try to stop acting like a kid yourself…