[quote]bomber221 wrote:
deadlifting twice a week will ruin an olympic lifter.
[/quote]
why is that?
… serious? because heavy deadlifting is much more taxing on the central nervous system and adding a second day in will take away from time spent on the classical lifts and squats. olympic lifters use a lot of volume once they are used to the lifts and slowly build up so they cant afford to interrupt it with a max effort deadlift day that ruins their central nervous system because they arnt used to pulling heavy. if they are pulling heavy all the time then they arnt spending enough time training the lifts.
I gotta disagree with you there. I know plenty of O lifters that use deads as an assistance exercise after they are done snatching and cleaning, etc.
So heavy squats, heavy cleans aren’t taxing?
[quote]bomber221 wrote:
… serious? because heavy deadlifting is much more taxing on the central nervous system and adding a second day in will take away from time spent on the classical lifts and squats. olympic lifters use a lot of volume once they are used to the lifts and slowly build up so they cant afford to interrupt it with a max effort deadlift day that ruins their central nervous system because they arnt used to pulling heavy. if they are pulling heavy all the time then they arnt spending enough time training the lifts. [/quote]
Good points. Also, the technique for pulling heavy PLer deadlifts is different from that for properly performing Oly lifts with max power, even conventional style. Not only will it ruin a volume progression in the classic lifts, but it will also ruin perfect clean/snatch technique if done constantly.
[quote]bomber221 wrote:
Stupid, yes.
- knee SLEEVES. they keep your knees warm. many people like to wear them while deadlifting.[/quote]
Stupid? I’ve been around a few gym, and I’ve never ever seen anyone deadlift with knee sleeves or kneewraps, seeing how it is a back lift so I’d watch that stupid remark kid.
[quote]bomber221 wrote:
2) he is an olympic lifter. olympic lifters dont deadlift for the most part. but apparently he has chosen to care about his deadlift and its carryover from olympic lifting. deadlifting twice a week will ruin an olympic lifter. deadlifting heavy once a week will set back progress significantly.
[/quote]
Like I said, I know plenty of oly lifters and lifters who train oly style who squat, dead, etc 3 plus times a week. In fact, oly lifters squatting 3 x a week is pretty common…is that taxing?
Do you know what helped me blast my deadlift? Deadlifting with smaller diameter plates. Avoid the 45 pounders and use extra 35’s instead. This will force you to pull from a lower position, so when you go back to using 45’s again, the same weight will seem a lot easier to lift.
[quote]benchaffleck wrote:
Do you know what helped me blast my deadlift? Deadlifting with smaller diameter plates. Avoid the 45 pounders and use extra 35’s instead. This will force you to pull from a lower position, so when you go back to using 45’s again, the same weight will seem a lot easier to lift.[/quote]
Or you can pull from a raised surface. Same idea.
I just hit a 525 Deadlift in competition, before that I had done 500 once (the week before) and 475 once (on two occasions). I do heavy deads once per week, and have an accessory day where I do SLDL’s followed by deficit deads using the 35’s. About 4 months ago I was pulling in the low to mid 400’s, so it has definitely helped my pulling.
I do take Power Drive to help with CNS recovery, but pulling heavy on a weekly basis hasn’t seemed to hurt my progress.
so people are claiming olympic lifters train the deadlift often. thats blatantly false with regards to international level lifters and top national level lifters. yea heavy squatting is taxing, but its a necessary part of an olympic lifters program. deadlifting takes away from time spent squatting heavy.
in olympic lifting everything revolves around leg and back strength. if you spend time doing both the classical lifts you will develop all the back strength you need and if you spend time squatting almost every workout you will develop the leg strength you need.
the rest is just adding in accessory exercises such as pull variations or good morning variations(both of which would mimic the classical lifts in technique) and overhead work. the goal would be to work on weak points in technique or strength. you then periodize to either increase volume, increase strength, or peak for a competition depending on what stage you are in.
take a look at some russian manuals on how they develop their lifters from a young age. they never do any deadlifting. it is a static strength exercise. most olympic lifters even do good mornings completely different than powerlifters do them. they do them much more explosively and mimic the finish on the second pull. they are firm believers in developing strength-speed as they call it.
With regards to the knee sleeves, with all the leg work that I do, I try to keep my knees as protected as possible.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1127149
Greekdawg, you are right that squatting is taxing , but it has a much higher carryover to the oly lifts than deadlifting does.
Deadlifting heavy is in most cases unnecessary for an oly lifter, considering all the pull variations we do. As bomber mentioned, and from my readings and experience, no high level olympic lifter deadlifts with any regularity.
I just really enjoy lifting heavy things off the floor, and I’m not yet at the point where my oly lifting scratches that itch. I will keep deadlifting, just not as often as may be ‘optimal’ for improving my deadlift at the fastest rate possible.
Though, if I improve my deadlift to 500 by may I will have improved my deadlift by 100lbs in around 7 months, which I think is pretty fast progress any way you slice it. Let’s hope I can do it 
So, who else is going for 500?
I pulled 450 last week so count me in. I’d like to reach 500 by summer time.
My weakness is the starting point. Once I get the weight off the ground it comes up fairly easily.
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Stupid, yes.
- knee SLEEVES. they keep your knees warm. many people like to wear them while deadlifting.
Stupid? I’ve been around a few gym, and I’ve never ever seen anyone deadlift with knee sleeves or kneewraps, seeing how it is a back lift so I’d watch that stupid remark kid.
bomber221 wrote:
2) he is an olympic lifter. olympic lifters dont deadlift for the most part. but apparently he has chosen to care about his deadlift and its carryover from olympic lifting. deadlifting twice a week will ruin an olympic lifter. deadlifting heavy once a week will set back progress significantly.
Like I said, I know plenty of oly lifters and lifters who train oly style who squat, dead, etc 3 plus times a week. In fact, oly lifters squatting 3 x a week is pretty common…is that taxing?[/quote]
any o-lifter worth his salt wont deadlift heavy. they do lots of pulls yes, but no heavy deadlifts. there is a profound difference between clean and snatch pulls and deadlifts. theyre just too taxing. if someone is focusing on o-lifting they wont waste their time doing such a redundant movement for their sport. deadlifts are incredible yes, but not for o-lifting.
[quote]LDcomp wrote:
I pulled 450 last week so count me in. I’d like to reach 500 by summer time.
My weakness is the starting point. Once I get the weight off the ground it comes up fairly easily.[/quote]
You should really add in some deficit deads. Do them off a platform or with the 35lb plates (or 25’s) instead of the 45’s. It will really help your starting strength.
I can deadlift 355 right now at 181 5’10 i bet i can get 425 in 18 weeks same weight.I know its not 500 but i wanna jump on!
[quote]MikeSh wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
Count me in, Ladies!
Perhaps I should have named this thread The RACE to 500! Where are you now?[/quote]
My old PR on the deadlift was 215 Kg (473 lbs) at ~95 Kg (210 lbs). I did not pull for about 3 months now, so I asume my number are much lower. I hope to stay at 220 lbs for the 500+.
Now I’m going to throw a curveball. No high level Oly lifter deadlifts heavy, except Travis Mash. He is working on doing PL, Oly, and bobsledding all at an elite level. The logs are at elitefts, and they’re awesome. He’s got a video of him snatching against bands, among other things. Somebody tell him he can’t do it. I dare you.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Now I’m going to throw a curveball. No high level Oly lifter deadlifts heavy, except Travis Mash. He is working on doing PL, Oly, and bobsledding all at an elite level. The logs are at elitefts, and they’re awesome. He’s got a video of him snatching against bands, among other things. Somebody tell him he can’t do it. I dare you.[/quote]
with all due respect to you and travis mash, he is not a high level olympic lifter (if you mean international level, as he is in powerlifting). He is an incredible athlete and ridiculously strong, but not at the olympic lifts (comparitively). At 105+ he would need to be snatching AT LEAST 375 and c&j AT LEAST 450 to be considered international (those are actually very low estimates, and i dont think he even is near those).
in addition, if he does end up improving his lifts to the elite level (which i hope he does) it is very possible that he does this in spite of deadlifting rather than because of it.
I’ll jump on only if I can use straps
[quote]greekdawg wrote:
bomber221 wrote:
Stupid, yes.
- knee SLEEVES. they keep your knees warm. many people like to wear them while deadlifting.
Stupid? I’ve been around a few gym, and I’ve never ever seen anyone deadlift with knee sleeves or kneewraps, seeing how it is a back lift so I’d watch that stupid remark kid.
bomber221 wrote:
2) he is an olympic lifter. olympic lifters dont deadlift for the most part. but apparently he has chosen to care about his deadlift and its carryover from olympic lifting. deadlifting twice a week will ruin an olympic lifter. deadlifting heavy once a week will set back progress significantly.
Like I said, I know plenty of oly lifters and lifters who train oly style who squat, dead, etc 3 plus times a week. In fact, oly lifters squatting 3 x a week is pretty common…is that taxing?[/quote]
Brad Gillingham wears Rehband knee sleeves for ALL of his Squatting, Deadlifting, and Power Cleaning (check his awesome video). I’ve seen MANY powerlifters wear knee sleeves when deadlifting. Since when is deadlifting a “Back” lift. It really depends on your build, limb length (upper and lower), and deadlift style.
[quote]GenSurg69 wrote:
Since when is deadlifting a “Back” lift. It really depends on your build, limb length (upper and lower), and deadlift style.
[/quote]
You must be a sumo guy. Otherwise how do you NOT consider it to be primarily a back lift?