Hey @tlgains, I wanted to continue the convo, but in a maybe more appropriate thread. Also, @Chris_Colucci - is this cool? I didn’t want to derail the other one any further, but I also didn’t know if this really fit in other threads and I didn’t see any race threads that weren’t from 10+ years ago…let me know if I should change something.
I don’t think history is being sugar coated. I think some things are glossed over. For example, and I mention this a lot because…I don’t know why, I don’t think people really ever hear about it, Native American history. The Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee (both Wounded Knees), etc. I do think you hear plenty about slavery, the Holocaust, segregation, etc. so I don’t think anything is being sugar coated, just that some groups are…I don’t know, paid more attention than others?
But I also think we should be learning about good things, not just the bad. Black people aren’t only perpetual victims of racism - a lot of them have contributed to every aspect of our society. Maybe this gets covered more during Black History Month, I don’t know. I had horrible social studies teachers in high school, so they didn’t teach me much of anything. I think other minority groups have good things we should learn about - whether it’s their contributions to science, literature, music, art, etc.; their activism for their communities (because yes, some activism is needed sometimes); their languages and cultural practices, or whatever else you wanna learn about. I personally have not been emotionally affected by hearing that Native people were mistreated, but I do think it is good for children to hear that all people have both good and bad aspects to their cultures and history.
In short, I don’t think “sugar coating” is happening, just that some are, like I said, paid more attention than others, but I also think let’s go beyond learning about the bad and more about the good. If I was a racist kid who hated some group, I think I’d be more likely to stop hating them after learning that they have good food, cool artwork, and are people just like me, rather than being told that my ancestors did something wrong over and over. (Which maybe they did, but I don’t think this solves racism.)
We will never achieve utopia, and since I believe racism is an issue of the heart and soul, we can never fully “rule” it out of existence or develop a policy that will stop true racists from actually hating people.
Maybe focusing on race so much…leads to more racism. I don’t know. Something I’ve thought of over the past year or so, is that MLK wanted his protestors to be peaceful and nonviolent, and specifically called for them to face the punishments that may be enforced upon them for their “unlawful” activities. It would allow them to appear as blamelessly as possible before people who either hated them, or weren’t so sure of how they felt about them. Abraham Lincoln, in a speech to a religious group, basically said that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Convince a man that you’re his friend, and you’ll have an easier time persuading him.
I don’t know how many Americans are truly racist these days, but I do feel that the intense focus on race these days may be what pushes some people away from not being racist. Or perhaps more importantly - the people who aren’t sure how they feel. True racists are probably a very small crowd, but the people who are on the fence about blacks, immigrants, Muslims, etc. are a probably larger crowd. Anywhooo, what I’m saying is, is that people are probably feeling pushed away or distanced from people, and all this CRT and discussion on race probably isn’t helping them feel more united. It’s divisive.
How poor is poor? How would we quantify that? I understand what you’re saying, but consider that - who makes that decision, and how is it made? And, who is black? Is a person with one black parent as black as someone with two black parents?
Natives run into this issue a lot, since we are the only creatures on earth besides horses and dogs that have our blood quantum measured. Is someone who is 7/8’s Native more Native than someone who is 5/8’s? What about 3/8’s? Is that person really Native or not? What about people who are actually enrolled in tribes or people who are Native but not enrolled in a tribe? Who makes these decisions, and who gets to decide how “colorful” someone really is?
Skin color isn’t even always accurate. Some black people are actually quite light. When summer hits and my dad is working his outdoor job, he gets darker than some black people. Some white people are darker than some Asians, and some Asians are darker than some blacks. I see Natives and Latinos who range from basically white to almost black.
I’m getting redundant here, but this is what I’m getting at: basing everything off of race is hard to actually do because people don’t just fit into little boxes. They can rarely be reduced down to one characteristic, like their race, and to do so, and to make decisions regarding their lives based off of this, is complicated, and perhaps even actually kinda racist.
Because it depends on people making smart decisions. Some people would use money to pay off debt, buy a home, set aside some to invest and put towards their kids’ college funds, etc. and some people would blow it all on clothes, cars, drugs and iPhones. Some people would create long term change for their families, and some would find themselves right back where they were within a year. You can’t say “all poor people get this amount of money and it will fix everyone’s lives” because some of those people will make bad decisions (because we’re all flawed humans) and their lives won’t get better and then they’ll blame others for their poor decision making.
@twojarslave gave an example of this happening in his own family.
Yeah. Like, Latinos may be victims of racism from people, cops, whoever, but has the U.S. government actually done large scale acts of harm to them like other groups can claim? I do think that some Latino woman were sterilized along with some Native and black women, but I don’t know much about it.
Why? I see people say this a lot. And listen, I love modern society. I love cars, heat, A/C, TV, fast food, Netflix, modern medicine, etc. But what have I done to deserve this? Why should I not have to struggle as much as my ancestors? That’s my thing. I currently don’t have to struggle, but I see no reason why I deserve to not struggle.