T Nation

The Protein Debate

Who here on T-Nation believes that too much protein is bad?

Meds say its bad for your kidneys

Dr. John M Berardi and other amazing writers also debate that here, and they give damn good reason.

I weigh 186-189 and consume about 200 grams of protein a day,

but does anyone here argue that too much protein is bad? Anyone have actual proof of that?

If you believe a lot of protein is good, post why, and tell me why I shouldn’t be worried about consuming too much protein or having liver failure, or kidney failure or any negative effects

-Any comments will be appreciated
Thanks in Advance

[quote]Marlonrobo wrote:
Who here on T-Nation believes that too much protein is bad?

Meds say its bad for your kidneys

Dr. John M Berardi and other amazing writers also debate that here, and they give damn good reason.

I weigh 185 and consume about 200 grams of protein a day,

but does anyone here argue that too much protein is bad? Anyone have actual proof of that?

If you believe a lot of protein is good, post why, and tell me why I shouldn’t be worried about consuming too much protein or having liver failure, or kidney failure or any negative effects

-Any comments will be appreciated
Thanks in Advance[/quote]

No one has proof. This has been discussed several times. Next time do a search before posting such trite.

You won’t, of course, so let me answer your next question in advance: Creatine works and does not have any known harmful side effects.

Docs don’t say that to much protein is bad. (And I mean hear the medical litterature not Doc X or Y that hears about sports nutrition and exercice physiology once in a blue moon)

There was a time a few years back when the only study we had on protein load was on people with pre-existing kidney problems that showed diminished renal function as protein was increase.

Today, we know that this is not true for individuals with normal kidney function.

(As CaliforniaLaw mentionned…the same ‘‘issues of early specific litterature on ill-subjects’’ goes for creatine).

Not to be jerks, be when you feel a question is of importance…be sure before posting it to look if somebody didn’t already asked it first. Generally there is…

Good day,

AlexH.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Marlonrobo wrote:
Who here on T-Nation believes that too much protein is bad?

Meds say its bad for your kidneys

Dr. John M Berardi and other amazing writers also debate that here, and they give damn good reason.

I weigh 185 and consume about 200 grams of protein a day,

but does anyone here argue that too much protein is bad? Anyone have actual proof of that?

If you believe a lot of protein is good, post why, and tell me why I shouldn’t be worried about consuming too much protein or having liver failure, or kidney failure or any negative effects

-Any comments will be appreciated
Thanks in Advance

No one has proof. This has been discussed several times. Next time do a search before posting such trite.

You won’t, of course, so let me answer your next question in advance: Creatine works and does not have any known harmful side effects.[/quote]

I did do research before posting, I read a lot of articles that said the same thing, then I read about some Harvard Studies, then some Nurse Studies Association thing, I don’t remember the name exactly, but they did talk about protein intake being dangerous.

“You won’t, of course, so let me answer your next question in advance: Creatine works and does not have any known harmful side effects.”

If that was supposed to be funny, try harder, and yes I do know about creatine, its not like I a newbie, i asked this question simply for the case of an argument. It’s not like I’m scared to consume more protein, I just wanted to see if anyone here had to make an argument about that.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Marlonrobo wrote:
Who here on T-Nation believes that too much protein is bad?

Meds say its bad for your kidneys

Dr. John M Berardi and other amazing writers also debate that here, and they give damn good reason.

I weigh 185 and consume about 200 grams of protein a day,

but does anyone here argue that too much protein is bad? Anyone have actual proof of that?

If you believe a lot of protein is good, post why, and tell me why I shouldn’t be worried about consuming too much protein or having liver failure, or kidney failure or any negative effects

-Any comments will be appreciated
Thanks in Advance

No one has proof. This has been discussed several times. Next time do a search before posting such trite.

You won’t, of course, so let me answer your next question in advance: Creatine works and does not have any known harmful side effects.[/quote]

Generally, if you want to be able to pass off uncalled for condescension as intelligence, expertise, or authority, you should occasionally toss a nugget of relevant information into your posts.

Otherwise, leave it to X- he can pull off the smartass routine and still get the respect. You’re just that dude who doesn’t get why people use avatars.

Marlonrobo- run a T-Nation search for the Protein Roundtable and Debunk the Chump! articles as well as a Google search for Will Brink’s Nutritional Myths that Just Won’t Die: Protein!

That should get ya started.

Actually I thought CL’s comment was kinda funny. Not funny ha ha, but funny.

To the OP- YES too much protein is not a good idea. How much? Well 500g a day for a 200lber is a good start. 200g a day for a 200lber is the bare minimum in my book. Really anything more than about 2g/lb is too much from all of the different sources I’ve read.

I seriously doubt you’d get much in the way of liver or kidney problems, as you would get fat so fast you’d inevitably stop taking in so much. To get organ failure you’d need to consume a very high amount for a very long time, consistently.

CT has talked about this very recently in his defense of his anti-bulking thread. Not the organ damage part, but the fact that you can take in too much and have it lead to fat gains.

[quote]Marlonrobo wrote:

I did do research before posting, I read a lot of articles that said the same thing, then I read about some Harvard Studies, then some Nurse Studies Association thing, I don’t remember the name exactly, but they did talk about protein intake being dangerous.

“You won’t, of course, so let me answer your next question in advance: Creatine works and does not have any known harmful side effects.”

If that was supposed to be funny, try harder, and yes I do know about creatine, its not like I a newbie, i asked this question simply for the case of an argument. It’s not like I’m scared to consume more protein, I just wanted to see if anyone here had to make an argument about that.
[/quote]

There is nothing to debate.

Thinking people do the following before arguing - research.

There is no research supporting either position. Hence, thinking people cannot debate the issue.

I know it’s shocking - shocking! - but some folks don’t just come up with “opinions” for the sake of having an opinion. We actually read stuff, think about stuff, and apply stuff.

Then and only then do we debate.

Hey look: a dead horse! Let’s beat it!

Of course “too much” protein is bad for you. The question is “How much is too much?” Too much of anything is bad for you, but you have to know where the limit is. And why would you want to find the limit of protein intake? What practical purpose would it serve? None.

Thank you all for your replies,

  • eengrms76-thanks, that was a lot of useful information. Same goes for one eye

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Actually I thought CL’s comment was kinda funny. Not funny ha ha, but funny.

To the OP- YES too much protein is not a good idea. How much? Well 500g a day for a 200lber is a good start. 200g a day for a 200lber is the bare minimum in my book. Really anything more than about 2g/lb is too much from all of the different sources I’ve read.

I seriously doubt you’d get much in the way of liver or kidney problems, as you would get fat so fast you’d inevitably stop taking in so much. To get organ failure you’d need to consume a very high amount for a very long time, consistently.

CT has talked about this very recently in his defense of his anti-bulking thread. Not the organ damage part, but the fact that you can take in too much and have it lead to fat gains.[/quote]

Do a search for John Berardi, The article that you should look for is
"Protein Prejudice " it was first published in T-Nation March 7 2003.
JB dicusses myths regarding Protein
consumption. I think it will answer quite a few of your questions. In fact anyone who hasn’t read it, should take a look also.

[quote]Marlonrobo wrote:

If you believe a lot of protein is good, post why, and tell me why I shouldn’t be worried about consuming too much protein or having liver failure, or kidney failure or any negative effects

-Any comments will be appreciated
Thanks in Advance[/quote]

Well, here’s the only “proof” I have:

I’ve been consuming at least 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight for around 10 years now.

During that time, my bodyweight has gone from 150 to 275.

I’ve had bloodwork done for the past 5 years. Nothing negative to speak of.

I read that your kidneys will literally explode and kill you if you consume too much protein.

(Before I get flamed, I would like to point out that I am in no way serious.)

[quote]Soccerstr078 wrote:
I read that your kidneys will literally explode and kill you if you consume too much protein.

(Before I get flamed, I would like to point out that I am in no way serious.)[/quote]

-What was the point of your reply? Don’t write here if your going to type threads that arent worth reading.

Studies have shown that protien is harmful under the following conditions:

  1. You consume roughly five grams of protien for each pound of bodyweight, and

  2. You have a pre-existing renal condition, and

  3. You are a rodent.

Otherwise, nothing has shown any correlation ebtween protien intake and kidney problems.

[quote]Marlonrobo wrote:
-What was the point of your reply? Don’t write here if your going to type threads that arent worth reading.[/quote]

Hell Pot, please meet Kettle.

Hmm, a point of nit-pickery.

Too much with respect to getting fat is not the same as too much with respect to health issues.

Plenty of people on the Atkin’s path eat meat and other protein products almost exclusively and generally don’t get fat and usually end up with an improved lipid profile after doing so (as long as they follow it correctly).

I am not trying to start an Atkin’s debate, but I am saying that eating protein has not been proven to be unhealthy, at any level, for an otherwise healthy individual.

Getting fat is a function of eating too many calories, not eating too much protein per se.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Hmm, a point of nit-pickery.

Too much with respect to getting fat is not the same as too much with respect to health issues.

Plenty of people on the Atkin’s path eat meat and other protein products almost exclusively and generally don’t get fat and usually end up with an improved lipid profile after doing so (as long as they follow it correctly).

I am not trying to start an Atkin’s debate, but I am saying that eating protein has not been proven to be unhealthy, at any level, for an otherwise healthy individual.

Getting fat is a function of eating too many calories, not eating too much protein per se.[/quote]

That’s true vroom. My post above kind of insinuated the opposite. The difference being is that most people up their protein intake without decreasing their other macros, which would result in fat gain.