The Problem With the Problem of Evil

Why did he create both enemies and “his” people (for lack of a better term) both in his image? I guess I’m trying to wrap my head around it, because if that were/is the case then (being omnipotent he had to see where it was going literally had to) he simply created humans to wage war in his name or against it…and by stating that everything and everyone was created for him that makes sense due to the selfish (human trait given to god) qualities it would take to create multiple groups simply to oppose one another on the most basic levels of society (belief in something).

Edit: I am not attempting to come across as belittling your faith, I have made a conscious attempt to thoroughly proofread my comments prior to posting after having had it pointed out by @anon71262119 (apologies if you were avoiding this one, but credit where credit is due!)

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Ok. I’m always curious about this stuff. I’ve known a lot of people who got saved. They usually follow and arc or trajectory of sorts.

The “Calvinist, but you can have it too if you’d just listen” approach that you’re delivering usually signifies the apex or just past it, usually followed by a pretty steep tail off.

Have you alienated from your fellowship or bible group recently?

No,

Very nice.

Well, keep the faith man.

There’s a difference between speaking necessary truths (sometimes hard and uncomfortable) and doing so without any attempt at showing grace or meeting someone where they are in life.

There were plenty of times Jesus said offensive things to the Pharisees, true. But there were many, MANY time when in His ministry he deliberately met people where they were in their lives without giving up the essential truthfulness of the message being shared. Take for example the woman about to be stoned for adultery. She was caught IN THE ACT. There was no doubt about her guilt. Pharisees of course tried to trick Jesus into saying something that would give them reason to arrest him (i.e. untrue).

Now, Jesus could have stood there and preached at her for her very obvious sin before finding a way to keep her from being stoned to death. She would have deserved it, even. But he didn’t. Instead of piling on before finally letting her live, he chose to address those who were about to stone her for her sin (which was in keeping with the laws of the Hebrews for those following along). He met her where she was at instead of piling on. And his one liner “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” left no doubt that he was talking about grace to the lawyers. She was wrong, he knew it and they knew it. But he didn’t choose the abrasive path when ministering to a lost soul there, and there were many times he didn’t do it with others. Most interestingly of all, he approached it this way without compromising the message.

He could also have said, “Once you believe hard enough, I’ll heal your eyes” to the blind man that cried out “I believe Lord, help my unbelief!” But that didn’t happen either.

After His ministry, his apostles did the same. Paul says “I have become all things to all men” (1 Cor 9:22). He was a pharisee to the pharisees, a philosopher to the Greeks in Athens, a blue collar worker with the workers in the seaside towns (something he didn’t have to do by birth because as a pharisee he would not have been a craftsman), a healer to the sick, a pastor to young churches, and a prisoner to the inmates and jailers.

The one thing he didn’t do was say “I’m doing it this way and only this way because _____”. Or “I don’t care how abrasive I am because that’s not part of my motivation”.

If you aspire to be as the archetypes of the New Testament, then you should seriously think about the difference between “becoming weak, to save the weak” and “becoming a Jew, to save the Jews” and your present approach.

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OP.
Nothing is unknown or mysterious to Him. He has never learned anything because He’s always known everything. Actual and possible, past, present and future (To us past, present and future. God is not subject to time).

And OP again…

God decrees what He forbids, and that without in any way being tainted by sin or evil. He renders evil certain without actively willing it. (Proverbs 16:4) How does He do this? I have no idea and it’s none of my business. (Romans 9:19-20) I wouldn’t understand if He explained it anyway. Is man free and accountable then? Yes. God’s sovereign decree and providence extend even to the temporal contingency and volitions of the wills of His moral agents bearing His moral image and likeness. It is God’s purposes, sufficient unto Himself that ultimately account for evil in His creation. Not any notion of the “freewill” of man that would construe it as freer than God’s.

The cross of Christ was not a fix in response to Adam’s sin. Adam’s sin was so there could be a cross of Christ.

OP once more:
Someone else then says: “Wow! Your God sure is stuck on Himself, isn’t He?”

Yes. He can do it and you can’t.

The amplification of the display of both His justice and mercy are best accomplished by this or He would have done it another way. Everything is about HIM and HIS glory. According to HIS standards, HIS way.

HE is God and we are not.

One of the great reasons I believe in free will.

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Ah well, another direct question evaded, and another dodge. It was over before it’s started.

Biblically defined, ME TOO

1: Quoting the Bible to prove a point only convinces people who already believe in the Bible. If a person wants to convince non-Christians, then CS Lewis’ books would be a better example to follow.

2: My ex-wife grew up in the old Soviet Union. Everyone in academia just copied word for word from already approved texts so if challenged they could point to where they got it from, from first year students all the way up to the most senior professors. Everything published in the USSR’s academic journals was like that for years, and everyone knew it, and no one bothered with referencing their quotes because then everyone would have to admit everything was just rearranged quotations. So if “THE TRUTH” has already been established and you will go to the gulag, concentration camp, or hell for deviating from the dogma, “cut and paste” arguments are the norm.

3: The issue of predestination is interesting for me. Does it mean God knows what decisions we will make, or has God arranged it so He has already decided what decision we will make. If it is the first, then that implies that the nature of time is that it all already exists and we are merely passing through it one frame at a time the way we move through space one step at a time and God can see the entire framework. If it is the second, then God is sending people to hell because He had decided to make people that will go to Hell and divine justice is really a sick joke.

4: If there are two groups of people, those who love and hate who God does and those who do the reverse, then why did Jesus tell Christians to love our enemies? Presumably, the enemies of God are the enemies of Christians.

5: On Islamic ideas of predestination, there is a streak of fatalism in Islam that can get really out of hand. One of the reason Islam doesn’t have the same tradition of missionary work that Christianity does is that many Muslims believe that conversion is between a person and God, and people who are going to convert are going to convert. Or not. But some extreme Muslims believe that every second of every day in every place in the universe is an extension of God’s Plan or Will. If my car starts today, or not, it is God’s Will. This idea is so pervasive in the Arab nations (even if it is a minority belief in the Muslim world as a whole) that if a rich man’s car breaks down he might just abandon it and buy a new one. Some oil fields in the Arab world still need western engineers because Arab engineers apply this philosophy to oil rigs.

6: If Vulcans and Betazoids are telepathic and empathic respectively, does that mean they know the mind of God? Is the sense of God’s existence always in the back of their minds, or do they hang around each other a lot because God doesn’t exist and the emptiness is disturbing?

7: If being born of a woman without a man means being born without sin, then why aren’t women running the church? They apparently aren’t transmitting original sin, so maybe they ought to be in charge.

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I was asking you, I read the original post and, “Because he can.” Is not what I had in mind for an answer. You are well versed in explaining these things I assume as a leader of your church you have broached these subjects in the past.

Well written.

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Because the King of the universe has commanded me to do so as it is the means by which He retrieves His elect and one of the means by which He bestows upon me, His child, the joy of my salvation.

Prove it. Open a bible and prove it.

Well, maybe I’m misunderstanding.

The answer to questions such as “why would God create people to damn them” are answered by saying:

…Because in His perfect determination, it best served His all consuming purpose of displaying His greatness as He himself sees fit.

That is the most outrageous thing imaginable to the heart dead in sin and simply a matter of course to one raised in Christ. I’m not going outta my way to be offensive friend. That’s the answer.

I don’t see how people can read this and not think it is 100% straight up loony tunes. God is going to punish people for all eternity for not bowing down and worshipping him?

God is the OG terrorist. Keep putting money in that plate though and I’m sure everything will work out.

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So God commanded you to go try and change people’s minds, even though it’s a complete waste of your (and His) time.

Okey dokey.

Which of your questions is most pressing to you please? I am one guy. :slight_smile:

That is your strawman mischaracterization. Clearly, like I said, you understand nothing of reformation (reformed) theology.

Could you answer my question now please?

They’re supposed to think that. Especially the book of 1st Corinthians tells me to expect it. Most people will think the bible is the stoopiddest thing they’ve ever heard. Of course they do.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

That’s just one verse. If sinners like what I’m telling them, I’m doing it wrong. Until of course the Spirit is working new life in them.

No, it isn’t - it’s a logical conclusion. Whether you persuade me to think like you do or not is irrelevant to my fate. You could change my mind or not and it is meaningless in terms of my salvation if predestination is to be believed. Thus, your evangelism is a complete waste of everyone’s time.

I gave you an opportunity to explain why your evangelism made any sense in light of predestination. You couldn’t square the circle.

In short, Calvinism is a hash of irreconcilable contradictions.