T Nation

The Obomunist

I’ll start…

The Obomunist feels that wealth distribution and pay limits for all corporationsis a good thing for everyone.

The Obomunist’s still today always has “The last 8 years” or the word “Bush” in their arguements.

The Obomunist thinks that the Patriot Act and initiative of of illegal wiretapping is all of a sudden OK…especially since the savior is EXPANDING the program for our protection.

The Obomunist hates any individuals success beyond their own… and enjoys the idea of someone that has been better off than they are financially now making less money. They enjoy anothers misery.

No matter, who leads and what he/(hopefully not Hillary “Saddle Bags” Clinton)she stands for, people will always bitch about the old douche in office and the new turd sandwich.

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.” ~Thomas Jefferson
“The issue today is the same as it has always been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite.” ~Thomas Jefferson

'nuff said.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

The Obomunist thinks that the Patriot Act and initiative of of illegal wiretapping is all of a sudden OK…especially since the savior is EXPANDING the program for our protection.

[/quote]

Funny, I don’t remember you saying a word about this when Bush created these programs a few years ago. Maybe I’m wrong…

Here’s What Obama Forgot:

"Of one thing we can be certain. When the essentials of our civilization begin to seriously falter and this causes real harm, those who would be our masters and their fellow travelers in the media, academia, business, and politics will cast blame upon some of these men of the mind?and drag them before us for punishment. Our John Galts know this, too, and it is a further distraction for them.

Some of these people are leading great enterprises. Others are in the basements of our power plants and other heavy industries. Some are closeted away in universities quietly at work on the next generations of possible advances in science and engineering. They are easily recognized?by their genius and by the love of their work that permeates their whole beings.

One way to recognize them is that they constantly talk about their work to anyone who will listen.

Now they are distracted.

What are they talking about today?"

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/commentaries_essays/john_galt.html

Every thug, every bureaucrat, every jailer and every IRS agent counts on the ‘John Galts’ of this world, to provide for them. What if they didn’t? What if they became distracted or feared that their next invention might get them prison time as a reward? What if Obama takes their monetary rewards and re-distributes the looted money to the lazy and shiftless?

Could bad things happen?

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
I’ll start…

The Obomunist feels that wealth distribution and pay limits for all corporationsis a good thing for everyone.

The Obomunist’s still today always has “The last 8 years” or the word “Bush” in their arguements.

The Obomunist thinks that the Patriot Act and initiative of of illegal wiretapping is all of a sudden OK…especially since the savior is EXPANDING the program for our protection.

The Obomunist hates any individuals success beyond their own… and enjoys the idea of someone that has been better off than they are financially now making less money. They enjoy anothers misery.

[/quote]

I would call your first point an intelligent point of view, in the last 50 years the wealth has moved in one direction, and it was through nothing short of crime, so to take back some of the top .5 % wealth is only smart.

Second point How is it possible to ignore the last eight years; it would be the same as ignoring the last 100 days
The word Obamanist would not exist

Your third point, I agree with.

Your fourth point is nonsense

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

The Obomunist thinks that the Patriot Act and initiative of of illegal wiretapping is all of a sudden OK…especially since the savior is EXPANDING the program for our protection.

Funny, I don’t remember you saying a word about this when Bush created these programs a few years ago. Maybe I’m wrong…[/quote]

I didn’t have a problem with it because it was fighting terrorism and an enemy who is not visible but only through internet and phone communications…

What say you about the EXPANSION of that “Bush” policy???

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
I didn’t have a problem with it because it was fighting terrorism and an enemy who is not visible but only through internet and phone communications… [/quote]

You may not realize it, but you came off as a really dumb person writing that.

Edit: typo “a”

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

The Obomunist thinks that the Patriot Act and initiative of of illegal wiretapping is all of a sudden OK…especially since the savior is EXPANDING the program for our protection.

Funny, I don’t remember you saying a word about this when Bush created these programs a few years ago. Maybe I’m wrong…

I didn’t have a problem with it because it was fighting terrorism and an enemy who is not visible but only through internet and phone communications…

What say you about the EXPANSION of that “Bush” policy???[/quote]

Damn,here I was looking forward to your response to GDollars. What a let down.

[quote]pat wrote:
“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work to give to those who are not.” ~Thomas Jefferson
“The issue today is the same as it has always been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite.” ~Thomas Jefferson

'nuff said.[/quote]

The man is one of the biggest enigmas in US history. Next Area 51, the U.S’ involvement in creating HIV, killing Malcolm and Martin, the U.S’ involvement in letting 9/11 happen, and women.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

The Obomunist thinks that the Patriot Act and initiative of of illegal wiretapping is all of a sudden OK…especially since the savior is EXPANDING the program for our protection.

Funny, I don’t remember you saying a word about this when Bush created these programs a few years ago. Maybe I’m wrong…

I didn’t have a problem with it because it was fighting terrorism and an enemy who is not visible but only through internet and phone communications…

What say you about the EXPANSION of that “Bush” policy???[/quote]

I was against the PATRIOT Act, against the blatantly illegal shredding of FISA (which is better grounds for impeachment than what did in Johnson or Clinton), and I’m against Obama expanding it. But I’m not at all surprised.

It never occurred to you a few years ago that when government gets massive new powers, whatever the pretext, it is loath to give them back? And in fact, that it is almost a certainty that those powers will expand and be abused? That thought never crossed your mind?

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:

I was against the PATRIOT Act, against the blatantly illegal shredding of FISA (which is better grounds for impeachment than what did in Johnson or Clinton), and I’m against Obama expanding it. But I’m not at all surprised.

It never occurred to you a few years ago that when government gets massive new powers, whatever the pretext, it is loath to give them back? And in fact, that it is almost a certainty that those powers will expand and be abused? That thought never crossed your mind?[/quote]

Is the issue that conservatives have changed their mind on the PATRIOT Act, etc. - or is it the hypocrisy of the Left?

As for Rockscar, I am not certain of his position - but pointing out Obama’s expansion of those controversial laws to highlight hypocrisy isn’t the same as first endorsing them and now changing your mind on the,

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
As for Rockscar, I am not certain of his position - but pointing out Obama’s expansion of those controversial laws to highlight hypocrisy isn’t the same as first endorsing them and now changing your mind on the, [/quote]

What hypocrisy? Obama’s voting record clearly indicated that he was a proponent of extending wiretapping?

[quote]lixy wrote:

What hypocrisy? Obama’s voting record clearly indicated that he was a proponent of extending wiretapping?[/quote]

You’ll note I specifically referred to the hypocrisy of the Left - i.e., his gullible, doe-eyed supporters that swore that Bush was a “fascist war criminal” for engaging in “shredding the Constitution”, only to vote for a man who is advancing those policies and…remain curiously silent.

Now, Obama’s voting record on FISA looked like a politically-timed switcheroo, but even if it wasn’t, he campaigned over and over on “restoring the rule of law” - telegraphing the Bush administration ruined it - and yet, continues wiretapping, has expanded the “state secrets” doctrine, and though promising to change Gitmo, etc. has only engaged in Orwellian Newspeak to put the proverbial “old wine into new bottles”.

I recall the hysterics on the Left saying Bush’s policies in these regards would be the Seventh Reich or whatever - wasn’t Hopenchange supposed to deliver us from Chimpy McHitler’s reign of terror?

It would be funny were it nor tragic.

EDIT: typo.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
I didn’t have a problem with it because it was fighting terrorism and an enemy who is not visible but only through internet and phone communications…

You may not realize it, but you came off as a really dumb person writing that.

Edit: typo “a”[/quote]

When an enemy infiltrates your country because the borders are wide open with no enforcement, then it does make sense to monitor via wiretapping. These are not enemys who are part of a nation or visible…they are cowardly and hide among the population.

I agree that the potential for abuse is there and always was. I’m not saying this is a good thing, even though I softly supported it and still do.

The point you miss is the fact that this program is all of a sudden OK with Libs since the savior and merchant of hope is expanding it.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:

What hypocrisy? Obama’s voting record clearly indicated that he was a proponent of extending wiretapping?

You’ll note I specifically referred to the hypocrisy of the Left - i.e., his gullible, doe-eyed supporters that swore that Bush was a “fascist war criminal” for engaging in “shredding the Constitution”, only to vote for a man who is advancing those policies and…remain curiously silent.

Now, Obama’s voting record on FISA looked like a politically-timed switcheroo, but even if it wasn’t, he campaigned over and over on “restoring the rule of law” - telegraphing the Bush administration ruined it - and yet, continues wiretapping, has expanded the “state secrets” doctrine, and though promising to change Gitmo, etc. has only engaged in Orwellian Newspeak to put the proverbial “old wine into new bottles”.

I recall the hysterics on the Left saying Bush’s policies in these regards would be the Seventh Reich or whatever - wasn’t Hopenchange supposed to deliver us from Chimpy McHitler’s reign of terror?

It would be funny were it nor tragic.

EDIT: typo.[/quote]

I see where you’re coming from. Obama rode the anti-Bush wave and milked it for all it’s worth. I don’t " recall the hysterics on the Left" in this forum. The Obama supporters were mainly saying that he’s the least evil (remember, he was running against McCain/Palin).

Obama didn’t just swindle the American populace. He managed to sell his vision of “change” to the whole world. That alone should be admired. Political rallies in Sweden (Left and Right) are recycling his “Yes, we can!”. Homosexuals in Morocco are using Obama as living proof that “change” can occur. Even Iranians were ecstatic about his victory.

To tell you the truth, this wiretapping crap pains me because the US sets trends in policies. But, ultimately, the US deserves a little lesson for its post-9/11 paranoia. Maybe this extension will trigger real change and get people to think out of the box (i.e: R. vs. D.) next election.

Or, maybe not. How many people read about this? How many people even care about wiretapping? How many will give you the “if you got nothing to hide…” line? How many have other priorities in this economy? We’ll see.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
<<< You’ll note I specifically referred to the hypocrisy of the Left - i.e., his gullible, doe-eyed supporters that swore that Bush was a “fascist war criminal” for engaging in “shredding the Constitution”, only to vote for a man who is advancing those policies and…remain curiously silent. >>>[/quote]

This illustrates a principal that very few want to address and hypocrisy is always the result on all sides where it happens.

People are just fine with all kinds of things as long as their camp is in charge including me. There are people in whose hands the intent of the patriot act would not only not bother me, but I would support. There are other people in whose hands it would be little more than a legalized political surveillance weapon.

Same with the line item veto, various war powers etc. If my guys had those I’d sleep well at night. Do not take that as referring to the current crop of Republicans either.

If the nations enemies, like this crowd of pied pipers at the helm right now, have them, I view it as a genuine disaster.

In other words many powers are like guns, as good or bad as the hands in which they are found. Some should not be granted to anybody no matter who they are. The hypocrisy rears it’s head when the left (or the right) attacks the powers themselves when one group has the reigns and then falls into silent support when theirs does.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
When an enemy infiltrates your country because the borders are wide open with no enforcement, then it does make sense to monitor via wiretapping. [/quote]

No, you idiot. It makes sense to do something about those borders.

Just imagine how much 1/100 of the resources squandered to wage war on Iraq could have accomplished.

To me, it sounds like those situations where the citizenry loses a lot more than they gain.

I could understand you supporting this if you work for the government though. Clearly, it’s a win from those people’s perspective.

The point you miss, is that you support it.

That’s partisan hackery at its best.

[quote]lixy wrote:

I don’t " recall the hysterics on the Left" in this forum. The Obama supporters were mainly saying that he’s the least evil (remember, he was running against McCain/Palin).[/quote]

I never limited it to this forum, which has seen only a few Obama supporters - and the voting bloc I refer to certainly did not preach that Obama was the “least worst” alternative, but rather that he was nothing short of a political messiah and demigod hipster.

Recall the shameful inconography and Beatlemania of left-wing voters - and it infected not some fringe partisan element of the Democratic party, but the mainstream of it.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:

I don’t " recall the hysterics on the Left" in this forum. The Obama supporters were mainly saying that he’s the least evil (remember, he was running against McCain/Palin).

I never limited it to this forum, which has seen only a few Obama supporters - and the voting bloc I refer to certainly did not preach that Obama was the “least worst” alternative, but rather that he was nothing short of a political messiah and demigod hipster.

Recall the shameful inconography and Beatlemania of left-wing voters - and it infected not some fringe partisan element of the Democratic party, but the mainstream of it. [/quote]

I’ll give you that. Gallup reports that over 90% of Democrats are thrilled by what Obama has done, when much of his policies are the exact same they used to attack Bush.

At the end of the day, people seem to care more about their side than about policy. Sad really.