T Nation

The Nature of Government?


"Why of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."

Sounds like today. Anyone know who said it?


Hermann Goering, if I'm not mistaken.


Were we not attacked?

Could I go through historic passages and find one that conforms to my way of thinking?


I post it because its ironic that a Nazi said it. And yet to those of us on the left, it could absolutely be said today by Rove and it wouldn't surprise me.

And Iraq did not attack us.


Did Russia or Germany ever attack our soil? Were I or II justified?

That said--it's sad that the quote, in fact, does carry some truth.

And no, Iraq never attacked us


Hmmm... I bet that the nazis used toilet paper, too. That doesn't make toilet paper evil. Manipulating people is at the heart of politics (any flavor or it), and the tools of the trade will remain. I see nothing wrong at all with this. This is business as usual.

Focus on what the nazis did, not how. There you will find the root of the sickness. The more we let our personal freedoms erode, the closer we move to fascism like the third reich. We are still quite a ways off from herding people into death camps around here. Let's be realistic, okay? We still bask in liberty and justice in the US of A.

It could be argued quite well that the Patriot Acts were a step in the wrong direction. I would tend to agree with this assessment, except that the laws don't appear to have done anything. Everyone was so worried about how they would be abused, but I don't see them even being used at all. It's just more crappy law... get rid of it. I'm sure that the second some non-terrorist affiliated American gets the legal shaft from the PatAct, the liberal rags will be all over it like flies on shizzle. Has anybody even heard a peep? Post a link or something, because I sure as hell missed it.


How is just as important as what the did. Because history repeats.

I am just looking for a political discussion here, that's why I posted it. It was simply unnerving to me to see that Goering states this so plainly, when many of us leftists have charged Bush with the same thing. I don't like seeing a philosophical similarity between out government and the Nazi's. And all political actions stem from one idealogy or another.

All the talk of being unpatriotic really irritates me also, as I hear it all the time. It is dissapointing.


Okay. But if you're going to charge Bush with being a nazi, or rather being "nazi-ish", you're going to have to do far better than pointing out a similarity with what Goering said. I will continue to contend that the "whats" are so much more important than the "hows". I will say it again: we are not, as a nation, acting like the third reich!! This is NOT history repeating itself!! LOL

Like when Green Day came out with that "American Idiot" song, and they're screaming "We live in a fascist nation!", I just enjoyed the irony in that the fact that the song got any air time (way too much, in my opinion... that song sucked compared to their earlier stuff), it was just proof positive that we DON'T live in a fascist nation.

So many kids these days don't even know what fascism really is... they think that having their parents tell them what to do is fascism. I mean, I like rebelling against authority just as much as the next guy, but get real here. We literally drown in freedom and liberty in this country compared to a real fascist state like North Korea or France. :slight_smile:

You aren't being unpatriotic by being anti-war. You are being unpatriotic by assuming that USA sucks by going to war. Maybe the folks who call you unpatriotic are being intellectually lazy. I haven't heard you being unpatriotic around here yet. So maybe it's not you, but a lot of lefties ARE unpatriotic. I think they are just misguided and uninformed. Yes war sucks, but sometimes it's necessary.


russia never attacked the U.S....

japan (an ally of germany) attacked the U.S....

was entering WWI justified...hmmm, I'm not sure...

was entering WWII justified ... definately...japan attacked U.S. soil...

and finally iraq never attacked the U.S...

so what is your point?


Not US soil, but they tried to assasinate a former president, took shouts at our airplanes on a regular basis, etc.


Your history needs a little work. Saddam signed a peace treaty with the Coalition after Gulf War I. He systematically & routinely violated that treaty. That was the primary reason for Gulf War II. Remember the dozen+ UN sanctions against him?


Look at what some of the leftists have said regarding Free Speech on the "Ohio Looting" thread. It's quite revealing who they feel should be allowed to speak freely.


Leave the french out of this.


they shouted at our planes? I hope that didn't frighten our pilots...



I think your history needs a litle work...at no time has iraq attacked the U.S....

FYI I was for the invasion of iraq, the removal of saddam hussein from power and the destruction of any illegal weapons of mass destruction...please show me where I have written otherwise oh wise one...

damn...and I was hoping someone would question why I don't necessarily think that the U.S. getting involved in WWI was a good thing...


Have you ever heard them shout? It hurts my ears.


If you had read the posts leading up to this you wouldn't have to ask. This was a 3 post back and forth discussion with another poster.
that's my point


I've read every post in this thread...

you haven't written jack shit in this thread worth reading...

so what the fuck is your point in writing anything?


I am going to work now, but I will get to your points. I don't know about WWI either.

And Ive heard them shout Zap....like a banshee on speed with a megaphone. Oooo I soiled me armor..


FightinIrish,some conservatives up in the east have made the remarks that Bush1,2 and the reagan group are Neo-Imperialists ,what say you .