T Nation

The Natural Limit.

Hey everyone,

I’m going on my first cycle soon and I’m just curious as to how my perceived natural limit compares with others who started AAS after reaching their natural limit. I’d love to know your lifts in this respect.

Mine are:

Bench: 350x4 400x1
Squat: 400x5 450x1 (I attempted 495 but missed completely. Unfortunately, my spotter also missed and I am lucky to be alive)
Deadlift: 400x6
Weighted dips: 292 (I weigh 202, with a 90lb DB) x20

Cheers,
Joey

A guy I train with has done 445 bench, 700 squat, and a 670 deadlift, all natural, in a tested meet. Competed in the 220 class.
He actually beat out equipped competitors with some of his lifts.

Thanks TB,

Those numbers came right before I started my cut. I expect I am a little weaker and can’t quite lift those numbers now (probably close though) but I’m hoping with my cycle I can exceed those by at least a decent amount across the board.

Fester: Jesus those are some amazing numbers. I doubt I will ever reach that for another 10 years.

-Joey

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
JoeyD20 wrote:
Hey everyone,

I’m going on my first cycle soon and I’m just curious as to how my perceived natural limit compares with others who started AAS after reaching their natural limit. I’d love to know your lifts in this respect.

Mine are:

Bench: 350x4 400x1
Squat: 400x5 450x1 (I attempted 495 but missed completely. Unfortunately, my spotter also missed and I am lucky to be alive)
Deadlift: 400x6
Weighted dips: 292 (I weigh 202, with a 90lb DB) x20

Cheers,
Joey

Those look very impressive in my opinion Joey. Nice job.

       I am making a middle age comeback and have a long way to go before I'm even near those numbers...

          But dips may come close soon, as they're a strong point for me. But seriously, fantastic job dude.

           nice contributions around the site too.

              peace bro,
              ToneBone[/quote]

[quote]Uncle Fester wrote:
A guy I train with has done 445 bench, 700 squat, and a 670 deadlift, all natural, in a tested meet. Competed in the 220 class.
He actually beat out equipped competitors with some of his lifts.[/quote]

All natural as in raw or no AAS. I ask because of the last line you wrote.

As far as tested meets, they typically only test based on a strength to weight ratio, meaning the lightweight competitors and some women are tested. I haven’t known any larger guys to get tested.

Those are very impressive numbers regardless, especially if he did them raw.


Joey, very good numbers. What is your current weight/height?

1 inch short of 6 feet. I usually just tell people 6’0.

current weight: 196. Cut down from about 202-204. I plan to be around 192 when I start, hopefully.

I got one of those water tank tests done two days ago. 9.5%bf. before my cut started I was at like 12-13%. I previously thought that I was at like 15% but apparently my skin caliper tests are bullshit.

Oh I forgot to mention. Probably the greatest amount of strength I gained on my squats and deads came from 10 years of hockey.

Your bench is very high in comparison to lifts, David Tate i think has mentioned that people he knew who were not on aas have got over 2k for the big 3-prob using suits-. Your definitely above the average for bench at least but other lifts seem about normal for most first time users. Good luck on cycle.

Thanks shiz. I’ve noticed through the years that, at least compared to my friends, who are about the same weight, my bench was always stronger. There was a time when I would bench every second day in my split routines, sometimes even each day, in an attempt to have a massive chest. My triceps are also disproportionately large when compared to my biceps.

This actually brings me to another question. Since, in the nature of AAS, it only really builds the muscles you work, would it be possible to only do half-presses and focus on completely reproportioning my biceps? Would that be detrimental to my cycle if I tried to stay away from stressing my tri’s?

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
Hey everyone,

I’m going on my first cycle soon and I’m just curious as to how my perceived natural limit compares with others who started AAS after reaching their natural limit. I’d love to know your lifts in this respect.

Mine are:

Bench: 350x4 400x1
Squat: 400x5 450x1 (I attempted 495 but missed completely. Unfortunately, my spotter also missed and I am lucky to be alive)
Deadlift: 400x6
Weighted dips: 292 (I weigh 202, with a 90lb DB) x20

Cheers,
Joey[/quote]

Pretty much the same numbers I’ve hit except my best squat was 465 x 5 (I’ve never maxed out) Not anymore unfortunately. That was 3 years ago but I’m working back up. Also my DL wasn’t impressive to say the least since I never did them that much. Dips 150 + 215 x 8 reps

At this point I found it pretty hard to make any more progress in the gym.

If you do a cycle please keep use posted on your results. I wonder if you’ll throw on as much size and strength as someone who is under their natural limit.

Yes, my numbers were simmilar to yours, and my weight was stuck around 185lbs at 6%
200 at 10% height about 5’11"

interestingly enough I have put on about 40lbs of muscle since but don’t lift heavier then I did when I was natural.

there is only so much your joints are willing to handle, irregardless of how much muscle you put on.

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:

This actually brings me to another question. Since, in the nature of AAS, it only really builds the muscles you work, would it be possible to only do half-presses and focus on completely reproportioning my biceps? Would that be detrimental to my cycle if I tried to stay away from stressing my tri’s?[/quote]

A lot of bodybuilders use this method of benching to focus more on the chest. It certainly does work.

So it does seem correct then that everyone is biologically on par with each other.

Hagar: I plan to keep a log on this forum and in my Magnum’s blog, posting EOD or E3D just how things are going.

P-22: I get joint pains even now. I try to work past them but I’m not looking forward to how bad they will be with increased lifts. Fish oil helps a ton, though. At least for me it does.

-Joey

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:

All natural as in raw or no AAS. I ask because of the last line you wrote.

As far as tested meets, they typically only test based on a strength to weight ratio, meaning the lightweight competitors and some women are tested. I haven’t known any larger guys to get tested.

Those are very impressive numbers regardless, especially if he did them raw.[/quote]

Raw and no AAS. Guy has been powerlifting since he was 15, did those lifts when he was 35, he’s 40 now.

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Jesus, that’s fantastic Fester, amazing what some of us can do…

                   TB[/quote]

I know, that’s why I listen when he tells me that I’m doing shit wrong, lol

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Now I’m creeping up on the bench, and plan to surpass that, the other two are taking a bit longer as I seem to have this chronic low back stress that hangs around all the time…I think it’s getting better slowly though…
Good to read about your accomplishments guys, and good idea for a thread Joey.

                 best, Tonebone[/quote]

If you have chronic back pains I would be very carefull.

Nobody cares how much you can lift anyway. It’s how good you feel and look that matters.

If you surpass your max from when you were 21 but injure your back in the process it defintely will not have been worth it.

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
So it does seem correct then that everyone is biologically on par with each other.

Hagar: I plan to keep a log on this forum and in my Magnum’s blog, posting EOD or E3D just how things are going.

P-22: I get joint pains even now. I try to work past them but I’m not looking forward to how bad they will be with increased lifts. Fish oil helps a ton, though. At least for me it does.

-Joey[/quote]

Just be very carefull. Listen to your body. If you are getting joint pains now, I can assure you it will get worse.
Steroids can mask the pain, but it will not prevent injuries, or cause you to heal any quicker.

typically steriods have an anti-inflamitory action that allows you to train an injured joint or tendon past what your body would naturally allow you to do without feeling a significant pain responce. This is due of course to the antiflam action that prevents such things as prostaglandins e.t.c from firing.

Bottom line is this: You can creat chronic injuries before you even know you have done so.

So be carefull, I suggest you train for reps and the burn, not for power.

If that is your motivation for doing AAS (power) then make sure you listen to your body very carefully, as you are only as strong as your weakest link.

I actually train for both, alternating in 2 month cycles between low rep/high rep, keeping the principle in mind that “the body remembers”. I’m one of those guys that believes PL’ing and BB’ing don’t have to be mutually exclusive, although I will likely only be mediocre at both in the end, splitting the routines like that.

I didn’t know that info. Thanks for the advice P-22. I’ll pay close attention to any acute or mild pains I experience. While on AAS, I plan to continue doing high-rep (as I have been doing during my cut). I guess my research on AAS wasn’t as complete as I thought it was.

-Joey

Is your bench suite or no suite?
impressive for your weight either way.
You could say you have a solid foundation.
grin

[quote]atolepozole wrote:
Is your bench suite or no suite?
impressive for your weight either way.
You could say you have a solid foundation.
grin[/quote]

You guys get bench suite? All my weights are in the same crappy room.