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The Myth: Overtraining or Under Eating?

Someone said this to me the other day…

“There is no such thing as over training just under eating.”

Do you agree or disagree?

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. I think that people can train a lot harder and a lot more than most do and use the fear of overtraining as a limiting factor.

Eating is one factor in recovery but not the only one. Hormone levels, sleep quality, anabolic/catabolic management throughout the day, etc are all components that influence the potential of being overtrained.

First of all, it all depends on the individual. Some people have a crazy metabolism, sleep alot and have a body that absorbs alot of nutrients. Chances are that this guy won’t overtrain nearly as fast as another guy with a shitty diet and poor recovery.

I think overtraining is extremely common, it’s just not nearly as bad as people make it to be unless you’re seriously doing way too much. You can slightly overtrain and it won’t affect you dramatically other than by slowing your progress a bit.

I experienced that, I use to lift 5 days a week, doing anywhere from 20 to 30 sets per muscle group. I did not experience headaches, muscle atrophy or anything associated with overtraining but when I dropped my frequency to 3 times a week and reduced my volume dramatically, I started progressing much faster.

That’s just what I experimented anyway, it’s a very unclear subject.

People OVERUSE the term OVERTRAINING. Most on this site are doubtfully training anywhere near hard enough to be “overtraining”.

UNDEREATING is more likely the reason they aren’t seeing progress.

[quote]Mr90210 wrote:
Someone said this to me the other day…

“There is no such thing as over training just under eating.”

Do you agree or disagree?[/quote]

Disagree but 95% of people in the gyms train like sissies and will never have to worry about it. Someone training very hard and with increasingly heavier weights has to take it into consideration but the guy squatting 135x10 when he’s got 2-3 reps in the tank is NOT going to overtrain any time soon.

If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

I think overtraining is real. Go squat 3 times a week for 3x5 or 5x5 and you will eventually regress. Thats overtraining. When you start missing reps, its called overreching.

Overtraining is when the body cannot recover enough between workouts and progress stops and regresses. If you are overtrained, no amount of food can fix the problem. You have to back off.

[quote]josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.[/quote]

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

Mike Matarazzo said the same thing a loooong time ago. I won’t say that there’s no such thing. But it’s true for the majority of the people.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

[/quote]

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining.

I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.

lol yea man its real

and word most people train like pussies anyway.

[quote]elano wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining.

I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.
[/quote]

If you add 500 calories and your lifts still regress, it could also mean that you still need to eat more. A lot of people grossly underestimate how much they should be eating.

You say overtraining is inevitable if they are training as they should be. I say they should also be steadily increasing their calories to support their new muscle mass and continued training level.

[quote]elano wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining.

I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.
[/quote]

Gotta disagree with this “overtraining is inevitable” thing. Part of training properly is knowing your body and tweaking things when you reach plateaus, and avoiding overtraining.

[quote]AngryVader wrote:
elano wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining. I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.

If you add 500 calories and your lifts still regress, it could also mean that you still need to eat more. A lot of people grossly underestimate how much they should be eating.

You say overtraining is inevitable if they are training as they should be. Well if that’s the case, then they should also be steadily increasing their calories to support their new muscle mass and continued training level.[/quote]

That is true, but I was talking about somebody who already knows how to train and eat. The guy im taling about already increases his calories when the scale stops moving and lifts stop going up. In that case, if nutrition is not the problem, then it has to be the fatigue factor.

The workout program that a lifter uses has to reflect his level of performance. An advanced athlete will overtrain on an intermediate program. An intermediate lifter will overtrain on a novice program. This is not because of his eating habits, it is because fatigue builds up between workouts and the body cannot recover.

[quote]josh86 wrote:
elano wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining. I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.

Gotta disagree with this “overtraining is inevitable” thing. Part of training properly is knowing your body and tweaking things when you reach plateaus, and avoiding overtraining.[/quote]

Of course a smart lifter will avoid overtraining. Im not talking about tweaking things to avoid overtraining, Im talking about there actually being such a thing and more than one factor (fatigue) to training.

The OP was asking if we thought overtraining was real or weather its just a lack of calories. You could eat 6000 calories a day at 150lb and still overtrain.

[quote]elano wrote:
josh86 wrote:
elano wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining.

I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.

Gotta disagree with this “overtraining is inevitable” thing. Part of training properly is knowing your body and tweaking things when you reach plateaus, and avoiding overtraining.

Of course a smart lifter will avoid overtraining. Im not talking about tweaking things to avoid overtraining, Im talking about there actually being such a thing and more than one factor (fatigue) to training.

The OP was asking if we thought overtraining was real or weather its just a lack of calories. You could eat 6000 calories a day at 150lb and still overtrain.
[/quote]

Yeah, but do you actually know anyone or have heard of anyone that weighs 150 lbs, eats 6000 calories a day, but is overtrained? I haven’t.

[quote]elano wrote:
josh86 wrote:
elano wrote:
AngryVader wrote:
josh86 wrote:
If someone was talking about feeling all shitty and not making progress and blah blah blah, I would say it is more likely that they are undereating than it is for them to actually be overtraining.

Yep. Most people need to eat more. I’m of the belief that it’s pretty damn hard to overtrain.

True, most people do just need to eat more. If nutrition is down like a clown (scale is moving), and you all of a sudden stop gaining and your lifts don’t go up anymore, and you add 500 calories your lifts actually start to regress, that right there is overtraining.

I think if a person is training the way that they should be, overtraining is inevitable.

Gotta disagree with this “overtraining is inevitable” thing. Part of training properly is knowing your body and tweaking things when you reach plateaus, and avoiding overtraining.

Of course a smart lifter will avoid overtraining. Im not talking about tweaking things to avoid overtraining, Im talking about there actually being such a thing and more than one factor (fatigue) to training.

The OP was asking if we thought overtraining was real or weather its just a lack of calories. You could eat 6000 calories a day at 150lb and still overtrain.
[/quote]

I think for the majority at 150lbs it would be pretty damn hard to overtrain eating 6000+ calories a day. At that weight you are weak as shit (except for maybe some extremely short/freak of nature individuals) and as such you wont be moving any heavy weights. That’s going to make it pretty hard to overtrain.

Alright, Im going to stop here because I think my point is clear and you guys are just nitpicking. I just used 6000 calories as an over-exaggerated example.

Of course thats way too much, but my point was that eating more will not prevent or solve an overtrainng problem. The problem lies in the lifters ability to stress his/her body to the point that they cannot recover from it between workouts.

when ever training to often or lifting to heavy affect my ability to make progress or even do the same lifts I did the week prior I consider it over training.

not in the sense of over training that some people talk about where it takes months to fix etc. But overtraining to me is just simply training more than normal until it becomes inneficient.

A good example of this would be hitting a big chest workout, then the next day coming in and maxing on bench. Not as strong as you would be? Thats over training in my opinion, you need more time off.

No ammount of food, or sleep at night, will allow you to train dumb and still make the same gains you would if you took enough time off between workouts to at least mostly recover.

[quote]elano wrote:
Alright, Im going to stop here because I think my point is clear and you guys are just nitpicking. I just used 6000 calories as an over-exaggerated example. Of course thats way too much, but my point was that eating more will not prevent or solve an overtrainng problem.

The problem lies in the lifters ability to stress his/her body to the point that they cannot recover from it between workouts. [/quote]

Actually you are the one who is nitpicking. The OP was asking if people generally see overtraining as a real possibility, or is progress usually haulted by lack of calories. The overwhelming consensus is that 95% of the time it is a lack of calories that is the problem.

You are claiming that a person can train to the point of where no amount of calories can prevent them from overtraining. Sure, this may be true, but do you see it as a regular occurance? Has anyone for that matter? This is the point Vader made and pretty much sums up the question.

To the OP, read Bauer’s thread in the T-cell and get his take on overtraining.