T Nation

The Muslim Holocaust


#21

First, America is not the only country involved in either place. In both places there was a coalition in place. Second, the 100,000 est. includes terrorist attacks and sectarian violence.
Second, the annual number of deaths in Iraq during war time is far less than that of the U.S. land mass not entangled directly in war.
Civilian casualties suck, but let's keep the numbers real at least.

Don't forget that targeting civilians was a common war tactic up through WW2.


#22

Are you suggesting their murders are justified, Pat?

Come on, you're supposed to be one of the good guys.

There is no reason good enough to support murder even if "other countries" were complicit with the US.


#23

I was talking about numbers not justifications....


#24

I did not say they were noble, just that compared to us they suck at killing.


#25

By that logic, brown eyed people beat them all.

Or right handed people, those brutal bastards.

And dont get me started on those with reasonable eye sight, they beat the blind by an incredibly margin when it comes to vicious murder.

As a sidenote, state employees with dashing uniforms must be in the top three.


#26

#27

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/us-army-kill-team-afghanistan-posed-pictures-murdered-civilians

The pictures are here
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-65976.html

Commanders in Afghanistan are bracing themselves for possible riots and public fury triggered by the publication of "trophy" photographs of US soldiers posing with the dead bodies of defenceless Afghan civilians they killed.

Senior officials at Nato's International Security Assistance Force in Kabul have compared the pictures published by the German news weekly Der Spiegel to the images of US soldiers abusing prisoners in Abu Ghraib in Iraq which sparked waves of anti-US protests around the world.

They fear that the pictures could be even more damaging as they show the aftermath of the deliberate murders of Afghan civilians by a rogue US Stryker tank unit that operated in the southern province of Kandahar last year.

Some of the activities of the self-styled "kill team" are already public, with 12 men currently on trial in Seattle for their role in the killing of three civilians.

Five of the soldiers are on trial for pre-meditated murder, after they staged killings to make it look like they were defending themselves from Taliban attacks.

Other charges include the mutilation of corpses, the possession of images of human casualties and drug abuse.

All of the soldiers have denied the charges. They face the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.

The case has already created shock around the world, particularly with the revelations that the men cut "trophies" from the bodies of the people they killed.

An investigation by Der Spiegel has unearthed approximately 4,000 photos and videos taken by the men.

The magazine, which is planning to publish only three images, said that in addition to the crimes the men were on trial for there are "also entire collections of pictures of other victims that some of the defendants were keeping".

The US military has strived to keep the pictures out of the public domain fearing it could inflame feelings at a time when anti-Americanism in Afghanistan is already running high.

In a statement, the army said it apologised for the distress caused by photographs "depicting actions repugnant to us as human beings and contrary to the standards and values of the United States".

The lengthy Spiegel article that accompanies the photographs contains new details about the sadistic behaviour of the men.

In one incident in May last year, the article says, during a patrol, the team apprehended a mullah who was standing by the road and took him into a ditch where they made him kneel down.

The group's leader, Staff Sergeant Calvin Gibbs, then allegedly threw a grenade at the man while an order was given for him to be shot.

Afterwards, Gibbs is described cutting off one of the man's little fingers and removing a tooth.

The patrol team later claimed to their superiors that the mullah had tried to threaten them with a grenade and that they had no choice but to shoot.

On Sunday night many organisations employing foreign staff, including the United Nations, ordered their staff into a "lockdown", banning all movements around Kabul and requiring people to remain in their compounds.

In addition to the threat from the publication of the photographs, security has been heightened amid fears the Taliban may try to attack Persian new year celebrations.

There could also be attacks because Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, is due to make a speech declaring which areas of the country should be transferred from international to Afghan control in the coming months.

One security manager for the US company DynCorp sent an email to clients warning that publication of the photos was likely "to incite the local population" as the "severity of the incidents to be revealed are graphic and extreme".


#28

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#29

#30

Wow I somehow missed the part where I claimed only America was in either place.

Irrelevant.

None of this has anything at all to do with my point. I will assume you missed it.


#31

Oh, and those "terrorist attacks" wouldn't be happening if those "coalitions" weren't there.


#32

This does not compare to the Daniel Pearl beheading video.


#33

You were saying?


#34

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#35

More of Nazi America

Doctors' roles in torture at Guantanamo

The Nobel prize winning NGO Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) has published a widely circulated white paper detailing â??experimentsâ?? conducted by physicians and other medical personnel on detainees at Guantanamo. Read the paper. Itâ??s a grisly, soul-sapping compendium of state-sanctioned, state-organized human experimentation.

Remember those OLC torture memos that war criminals John Yoo and Jay Bybee wrote, alleging that the US policy of â??enhanced interrogationâ?? was both legal and safe? Well, the â??safetyâ?? of the techniques was determined based on results of â??studiesâ?? conducted by medical personnel on actual human beings. The effects of waterboarding and extreme sleep deprivation and sustained severe pain were all meticulously recorded and studied. Conclusions were then drawn. Just like a happy little science project! Only instead of making acetaminophen in the lab and determining the yield of product (the only actual science experiment I remember from college), these criminals were distorting the scientific method for totalitarian, undemocratic purposes.

To wit:
1) Experimenters were able to conclude that saline was a far safer liquid to pour over the faces of restrained inmates, rather than pure water. The simulation of drowning wasnâ??t altered (thank god!) but the higher sodium concentration of saline helped prevent the unfortunate side effect of severe hyponatremia and subsequent brain edema seen with the forced swallowing of large amounts of pure water.

2) Clinical investigators determined that combination of techniques that cause severe pain did not lead to an overall increased susceptibility to the perception of severe pain (someone please feel free to interpet whatever the hell that means). Consequently, researchers felt comfortable recommending that Gitmo torturers could freely combine walling, stress positions, and other pain eliciting techniques. In other words, the detainee felt equally shitty whether you just rammed his head into a wall or combined that with forcing him to also stand on his right leg for three hours without moving.

3) Researchers concluded that sleep deprivation up to 180 hours (thatâ??s about 8 days of sleeplessness for the math impaired) did not lead to any long term psychological or physical consequences. And then as long as you let the subject sleep uninterruptedly for 8 hours, you could resume another 180 hours of wakefulness! Sweet!

Yes, this happened in America. This is what even the Obama Administration defends to its core. We donâ??t look back in this country. We gaze only toward the future, wide eyed and full of hope. With our blinders on. No one is held accountable for lawlessness and immoral actions. We invade countries under false pretenses. We torture suspects. We detain indefinitely â??suspicious Muslimsâ?? for years at a time only to release them without any charges. We send unmanned Predator drones into Pakistan and Afghanistan, strafing villages, collateral damage be damned. Our former President can smugly proclaim, â??hell yeah I waterboarded KSMâ?¦.and Iâ??d do it all over again!â??. We have government employed doctors who conducted illegal, immoral experiments on human subjects, not for some greater good, mind you, but to provide a sham scientific cover for the inhumane torture and abuse of completely subjugated prisoners.


#36

No, they'd probably happening here, Israel or in Europe. Lest you for get that they hate our guts for merely existing....Except when they need help or a no fly zone declared, then they are our best friends. After which they return to hating our guts.

And numbers do matter. No matter how you slice it, 100,000 is better than 1,000,000. In the case of Asscrackistan, I don't see really where we had a choice. It was a case of kill or be killed such was their self proclaimed doctrine.


#37

You said "...100,000 people died as a result of America's military actions...", the singling out of the U.S. with out the mention of others leads one to believe that you single the U.S. out.
War is ugly and it always will be. There seldom is a proper reason for people to die over it, but it happens. Taking an ideological stance on the matter doesn't make it less ugly or less likely to happen.
It's easy to criticize, but what are the alternatives?

I see a president with all kinds of ideology walking into the role, looking like based on the information he receives, we had to increase troop presence in Afghanistan and bomb Libya.

I would say with out knowing for sure, there probably isn't much choice if a peacnik like obama, is bombing the shit out of places, keeping Gitmo open for business, etc.


#38

Hey look an ignorant stereotype. Good work.


#39

Americans die = THIS IS TRAGIC! WE NEED JUSTICE!

Brown people die = eh. If you wanna make an omlette, gotta break some eggs. It sucks but, hey, thats war.

Brown people apply above "eh" logic to the deaths of Americans = THEY HATE US FOR MERELY EXISTING! THEY HATE FREEDOM!


#40

First "Hey look an ignorant stereotype. Good work."

Followed immediately by:

"Americans die = THIS IS TRAGIC! WE NEED JUSTICE!

Brown people die = eh. If you wanna make an omlette, gotta break some eggs. It sucks but, hey, thats war."

Fucking hilarious.