The More I Work Arms, the More They Shrink

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
This question is crucial to me, because it is a lagging part, and when a body part is laggin, I use the approach of starting the week with it and use more volume, but arms are “deflated” the next day, as overtraining. but instead if i do push ups, and some db curls on the morning, something lite, they keep growing, all along, not peak, but all along. maybe it is not developed enough? and the peek can’t grow any further because there is not enough mass to support it? but i am looking the right approach for them. [/quote]

The right approach is that you won’t be gaining much size on your arms unless everything else is growing as well. In fact, many relate this to a 15-20lbs gain in bodyweight to see an inch in growth on your arms. Your relation of “.4lbs a week” does not tell us how much weight you have gained overall.

If your arms are “deflated” the next day after training them, that points to a lack of sufficient carbohydrates in your diet.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
Professor X wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
derek wrote:

…and “shocking them” to you means not training them directly?

[/quote]

No, i mean to do something out of normal, something like no other bodyparts on this period. something like the 1 day cure. If i keep doing some chest and between the sets I do curl with light weights, they keep size and even grow.
If I do say: arms: monday and saturday. next week they lose some size.

I can do chest every week twice and I feel sore, but it looks better or better shaped, or the gap on the upper part is filling. not arms, they like to be beneath another workouts, not directly.

[quote]juanjromero wrote:
derek wrote:
I bet if you put on another 30 lbs of smart size, your arms will be bigger!

Ya think?

Yeah, that is for sure, but I need 30/0.4=75 weeks to do that.

may be you are right and I have to adjust my expectation.
Some people already tells me how good they look. but (at least for me) it is never good enough. you know?[/quote]

Dude, you are 40 YEARS OLD. You won’t be growing as fast as someone in their 20’s or 30’s. It is probably going to take you a hell of a lot longer than that to gain that 30lbs of lean body mass.

[quote]derek wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
This question is crucial to me, because it is a lagging part, and when a body part is laggin, I use the approach of starting the week with it and use more volume, but arms are “deflated” the next day, as overtraining. but instead if i do push ups, and some db curls on the morning, something lite, they keep growing, all along, not peak, but all along. maybe it is not developed enough? and the peek can’t grow any further because there is not enough mass to support it? but i am looking the right approach for them.

I just gave up.[/quote]

I think this is something related to my previous tricep question. I don’t know how, but i have to figure out. thanks for you patience.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
derek wrote:
I bet if you put on another 30 lbs of smart size, your arms will be bigger!

Ya think?

Yeah, that is for sure, but I need 30/0.4=75 weeks to do that.

may be you are right and I have to adjust my expectation.
Some people already tells me how good they look. but (at least for me) it is never good enough. you know?

Dude, you are FOURTY YEARS OLD. You won’t be growing as fast as someone in their 20’s or 30’s. It is probably going to take you a hell of a lot longer than that to gain that 30lbs of lean body mass.[/quote]

probably, but at least it will take that much time.

  1. Not all body parts respond the same way. EVERYBODY has muscles that are more stubborn (harder to make grow) than others. This is either due to:
  • their muscle fiber make-up: fast-twitch fibers have a much greater growth potential than slow-twitch fibers. So if one of your muscle groups is very low in FT fibers it will be naturally harder to make it grow.

  • neural activation issues: it’s one thing to have enough FT fibers in a muscle group to make it grow optimally, it’s quite another to be able to maximally recruit those fibers. FT fibers are known as ‘high threshold motor units’’ meaning that they are the last one to be recruited. If your nervous system is not efficient as recruiting the FT fibers in a muscle group, then it will be hard to stimulate them to grow. You said that you recently begun to train your arms directly. It is possible that the fact that you did little direct work in the past failed to develop optimally your capacity to maximally recruit the FT fibers in your arms. In that case stopping direct arms work would be a mistake: you need to ‘‘practice’’ recruiting those muscles to become efficient at it.

  • muscle dominance issues: if some muscles that assist in the function of your upper arm are much stronger then they will tend to take over when you do direct arm work. For example, if your forearms are proportionally stronger than your biceps, they will tend to take away from your biceps when doing curls, making the exercise less effective at making the biceps grow.

  1. It is not a cortisol/testosterone issue. If it were your whole body would not be growing, not just one muscle group.

  2. Understand that smaller muscle groups cannot get as much absolute growth than bigger muscles. For example, adding one inch to a big muscle like the quadriceps is not the same thing as adding one inch to a small muscle like the biceps. One inch on your quadriceps might represent at 5% improvement (just an example) while the same 1’’ on your biceps might represent a 20% improvement.

Changes in the size of a muscle will be in proportion to its current size. So a smaller muscle group will not get the same total growth as a big muscle, even though it might have the same proportional growth. Now, since the growth will be smaller it will be harder to notice. For example gaining 1/8th of an inch on your arm might be the same thing proportion-wise as gaining 1’’ on your legs. However it will be much easier to notice the 1’’ gain than the 1/8th of an inch one. Thus it becomes easy to wrongfully assume that the arms are growing at a slower pace.

  1. Measurements the day, or even several days, after a workout doesn’t mean anything. It can be due to glycogen depletion and water loss (which makes you lose size) or to inflamation (which makes you gain size). But in both cases you are not gaining or losing actual muscle tissue. Adding muscle is a long process, so it is pointless to measure yourself frequentely.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Adding muscle is a long process, so it is pointless to measure yourself frequentely.[/quote]

I’m just quoting this one because they don’t believe me when I say it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
This question is crucial to me, because it is a lagging part, and when a body part is laggin, I use the approach of starting the week with it and use more volume, but arms are “deflated” the next day, as overtraining. but instead if i do push ups, and some db curls on the morning, something lite, they keep growing, all along, not peak, but all along. maybe it is not developed enough? and the peek can’t grow any further because there is not enough mass to support it? but i am looking the right approach for them.

The right approach is that you won’t be gaining much size on your arms unless everything else is growing as well. In fact, many relate this to a 15-20lbs gain in bodyweight to see an inch in growth on your arms. Your relation of “.4lbs a week” does not tell us how much weight you have gained overall.

If your arms are “deflated” the next day after training them, that points to a lack of sufficient carbohydrates in your diet.[/quote]

uhm…
maybe this is the answer, because the previous day to my leg training I do load carbs. but for arms, never approached this way.

[quote]derek wrote:
juanjromero wrote:
derek wrote:
I bet if you put on another 30 lbs of smart size, your arms will be bigger!

Ya think?

Yeah, that is for sure, but I need 30/0.4=75 weeks to do that.

Are you REALLLLLY frustrated because it may take a year and a half to add 30 lbs of mass? [/quote]

no. I just want to recover from the lag. all my body measures keeps 3% of lag. but arms keeps 6%. on average. I am determined to work that time and longer to achieve.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Adding muscle is a long process, so it is pointless to measure yourself frequentely.

I’m just quoting this one because they don’t believe me when I say it.[/quote]

yes, i accept this one as a fact. I just put the info on my computer to later after months analyze the trend. not the figure at a given time, but the trend over a timespan. i am a statistic freak, but not measure driven. i know it is a long process and accept it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Adding muscle is a long process, so it is pointless to measure yourself frequentely.

I’m just quoting this one because they don’t believe me when I say it.[/quote]

Come to think of it, in my whole life I actually have never taken any measurements of any of my muscle groups. I go by the mirror and my progression in the gym.

Plus, measurements will vary widely during the day anyway… it depends (as you mentionned earlier) on how much carbs you ate. But factors like time of day, temperature and what you did the day before will all affect measurements.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

ALL
[/quote]

it is hard to choose a paragraph from your post and comment, I think you addressed the issue on superb way. as for strategy, i will start by addressing the neural issue, it is probably true because I avoid the direct arm workout on consistent basis. that very same issue happened me with chest, once i “connected” with chest, it started to grow. Other one is discover what my arms are made of and make a plan acordingly. and last but not least, prepare my glycogen for work as for any of the other large muscle groups. i do arms on maintenance range of eating (3250kcal)

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Come to think of it, in my whole life I actually have never taken any measurements of any of my muscle groups. I go by the mirror and my progression in the gym.
[/quote]

I measured my arms when I was a kid. I avoided taking even one measurement of my arms until years later when they hit 18". I remember reading an article by Larry Scott when I was in junior high about how the progress is MEASURABLY slow so frequent measurements could only discourage. Considering how important the mental state is to making significant progress, anyone taking any more measurements than body weight on a frequent (weekly) basis is simply harming themselves.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Adding muscle is a long process, so it is pointless to measure yourself frequentely.

I’m just quoting this one because they don’t believe me when I say it.

Come to think of it, in my whole life I actually have never taken any measurements of any of my muscle groups. I go by the mirror and my progression in the gym.

Plus, measurements will vary widely during the day anyway… it depends (as you mentionned earlier) on how much carbs you ate. But factors like time of day, temperature and what you did the day before will all affect measurements.[/quote]

I agree with you on the mirror test, and sometimes the variation is invisible, but we all know all your background, at my age, you were already made. i am a 40yo man with a half that age goal. I have less time and more drawbacks, so I want to maximize my time. not reduce the time it takes me to reach it. Just make every minute on gym to count. I know the numbers change easily, that is why i use trends, trends don’t change on one day measurement, they must receive consistent reductions to mark a decline. just silly statistic. never mind.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Come to think of it, in my whole life I actually have never taken any measurements of any of my muscle groups. I go by the mirror and my progression in the gym.

I measured my arms when I was a kid. I avoided taking even one measurement of my arms until years later when they hit 18". I remember reading an article by Larry Scott when I was in junior high about how the progress is MEASURABLY slow so frequent measurements could only discourage. Considering how important the mental state is to making significant progress, anyone taking any more measurements than body weight on a frequent (weekly) basis is simply harming themselves.[/quote]

yeah, maybe this is my real issue.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You know, if you have genetics that cause muscles to shrink when you train them, this may not be the best activity for you…OR you could find out why you really aren’t making progress and stop acting like biceps curls equate to using a shrink ray on your humurus.[/quote]

If this reversal of the workings of the human body really applies to him, maybe if he sits on the couch and drinks beer his arms will get huge.

Worth a try, and if it doesn’t at least you got drunk.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

You know, if you have genetics that cause muscles to shrink when you train them, this may not be the best activity for you…OR you could find out why you really aren’t making progress and stop acting like biceps curls equate to using a shrink ray on your humurus.

If this reversal of the workings of the human body really applies to him, maybe if he sits on the couch and drinks beer his arms will get huge.

Worth a try, and if it doesn’t at least you got drunk.[/quote]

LOL

Believe it or not, I’ve had the same problem in the past, and I determined I was simply overworking certain arm muscles and underworking others (very technical description). Since I don’t handle very much direct arm work well, I have to make wiser choices when it comes to exercise selection.

For example, if I worked my back with a supinated grip earlier in the session, I would toss in hammer curls at the end. If I used a semi-supinated grip for my back exercise, I felt free to use regular old BB curls. And so on. This way, I work my biceps from several different (gasp) angles, rather than overwork a certain part. It’s working so far.

[quote]leon79 wrote:
Believe it or not, I’ve had the same problem in the past, and I determined I was simply overworking certain arm muscles and underworking others (very technical description). Since I don’t handle very much direct arm work well, I have to make wiser choices when it comes to exercise selection. For example, if I worked my back with a supinated grip earlier in the session, I would toss in hammer curls at the end. If I used a semi-supinated grip for my back exercise, I felt free to use regular old BB curls. And so on. This way, I work my biceps from several different (gasp) angles, rather than overwork a certain part. It’s working so far.[/quote]

nice post. good description and to the point.

LOL

[quote]leon79 wrote:
Believe it or not, I’ve had the same problem in the past, and I determined I was simply overworking certain arm muscles and underworking others (very technical description). Since I don’t handle very much direct arm work well, I have to make wiser choices when it comes to exercise selection. For example, if I worked my back with a supinated grip earlier in the session, I would toss in hammer curls at the end. If I used a semi-supinated grip for my back exercise, I felt free to use regular old BB curls. And so on. This way, I work my biceps from several different (gasp) angles, rather than overwork a certain part. It’s working so far.[/quote]

How are your gains going?