The Mexican States of America

Easy Immigration Solution:
Trespassers will be Shot, Survivors Shot Again !
I do not have an issue with LEGAL immigration. My great grandfather came over Legally and was processed in.

the burden placed on the country as a whole is getting out of hand…

Bring the 100,000+ troops home from foreign wars and stage them on the border. That would account for a military personel about every
100 yards by my calculations. 6000+ miles of border divided by 100,000 troops. Military families would be united, we would not be spending Billions staging the military overseas, and anyone trying to cause mayhem would have to travel 12,000 miles to get their sorry asses HERE, on their dime.

It is time to get BoonDock Saints on their illegal asses…

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Cheap labor helps American businesses thrive, but not for Americans who pay taxes, and need to achieve a standard of living because they don’t live tax free… how is this good for America? Or are you referring to lining the pockets of the CEO’s, COO’s, and stock holders?

What is a cyote? Sorry I may not know the lingo.

Stationing our overseas troops to defend our border, giving them actual work instead of “laying off” military because they are too expensive, is one way to close our borders. You don’t need walls just barbed wire fences and armed guards given permission to fire upon anyone attempting to cross in an “unsanctioned zone.”

I have a sneaking suspicion you either don’t pay much for taxes, or don’t pay much attention to how much of your income is taken by taxes and what percentage of that is fed to people who literally do nothing and offer nothing to a country that is coddling them on our dime.[/quote]

Coyote’s, people who make a living moving other people across the U.S. boarder. They tend to be pretty dangerous folks as are most human traffickers.

When I think about the U.S. militarizing the U.S. Borders, I imagine we end up in another war. But the messed up thing is we end up at war with what is ultimately just a middle man. While we are at war with Mexican drug cartels we will see what happens to the entities within the U.S. who benefit from illegal labor and make money hand over fist, then talk like illegal aliens are the devil. I suspect Mexicans will be quite demonized during this time and other entities will find ways to get drugs into the country or continue building the infrastructure to manufacture them within the country. As it is a lot of the meth products coming from Mex are imported from Asia/ China… Coke is from Columbia/S. America and a tiny portion from Mexico itself…

At least folks like you would see reality for what it is. What will we do? React by sending more jobs to China. How giving China jobs gets a pass in the Republican mind is beyond me. Aren’t they red China commies? I’ll tell you this, Mexico isn’t producing any of the raw materials for drugs, other than really crappy Marijuana that hardly anybody buys.

Comedy gold to me man. Go ahead, militarize the border, you will do Mexico a favor. [/quote]

Exactly what US business entities are making money hand over fist using illegals?

Maybe it happens and I just haven’t seen it, but people are acting like Halliburton and Citi are raking in billions off of the backs of illegal immigrants.

Maybe there are some huge agricultural conglomerates? Who are they?

The only companies employing illegals that I’ve seen have been scummy landscape outfits who won’t pay enough to get regular native labor, and they sure as hell aren’t making money hand over fist. Maybe enough to buy a couple of eight balls on the weekend and fool themselves into thinking that they’re doin it right, but not nearly enough to make up for their lack of actual skill or acumen.

Is colonization a form of illegal immigration? I know some smart ass will say that there were no laws prohibiting Europeans from coming to the New World and displacing, enslaving and killing Indians but there is right and wrong, some would say even natural laws, and they were also Christians who were supposed to follow more than man’s law. It’s also why I qualified it with “form” of illegal immigration.

I’m not saying what’s going on now is right but the not so subtle racist undertones of some arguments here and a sense of being on some moral high ground tells me that some need a reminder that their ancestors were either Indian killing sociopaths or, were viewed as Mexicans are today (Jews, Irish, Italians, etc.) Chances are that your ancestors were not wanted nor welcomed here either. If they were among the first Europeans it was the Indians who didn’t want them. If they were later immigrants (Irish, Jews, Italians, etc.) then the Europeans that preceded them didn’t want them.

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I think this is a HUGE problem!! Borders need to be better blocked off and all illegals should be deported immediately. It is against the law, you break the law, you face punishment. What is so hard about that…[/quote]

I’d say incinerate about 20-50 of them every week with a flame thrower… of course totally by accident and the rest of them will get the message. Maybe blame it on a drone.

Rob

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Viva la mexico the more the marryier great for business [/quote]

Except for the black and latino teenagers that can’t get a job.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Viva la mexico the more the marryier great for business [/quote]

Except for the black and latino teenagers that can’t get a job. [/quote]
You assume they want a job.

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Cheap labor helps American businesses thrive, but not for Americans who pay taxes, and need to achieve a standard of living because they don’t live tax free… how is this good for America? Or are you referring to lining the pockets of the CEO’s, COO’s, and stock holders?

What is a cyote? Sorry I may not know the lingo.

Stationing our overseas troops to defend our border, giving them actual work instead of “laying off” military because they are too expensive, is one way to close our borders. You don’t need walls just barbed wire fences and armed guards given permission to fire upon anyone attempting to cross in an “unsanctioned zone.”

I have a sneaking suspicion you either don’t pay much for taxes, or don’t pay much attention to how much of your income is taken by taxes and what percentage of that is fed to people who literally do nothing and offer nothing to a country that is coddling them on our dime.[/quote]

It’s your conservative philosophies that equivocate businesses/ corporations to people. What, you don’t love YOUR people? :slight_smile: CEO’s, COO’s, Stockholders have their share of rich republicans… Many of which I’m sure are also individuals that make up many different corporations, but there you go pointing the finger at Mexicans in particular.

Hey, since CEO’s get to be basically two people (the individual and the corporation) doesn’t that make them as important as two people? Seems that way, they get twice the rights of you and me, and you like it that way don’t you…

Whats that saying from the bible, remove the plank from your own eye? :slight_smile: I’ll let you finish that one off. [/quote]

Your misuse of platitudes is astonishing. I don’t even know what you’re trying to say.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is colonization a form of illegal immigration? I know some smart ass will say that there were no laws prohibiting Europeans from coming to the New World and displacing, enslaving and killing Indians but there is right and wrong, some would say even natural laws, and they were also Christians who were supposed to follow more than man’s law. It’s also why I qualified it with “form” of illegal immigration.

I’m not saying what’s going on now is right but the not so subtle racist undertones of some arguments here and a sense of being on some moral high ground tells me that some need a reminder that their ancestors were either Indian killing sociopaths or, were viewed as Mexicans are today (Jews, Irish, Italians, etc.) Chances are that your ancestors were not wanted nor welcomed here either. If they were among the first Europeans it was the Indians who didn’t want them. If they were later immigrants (Irish, Jews, Italians, etc.) then the Europeans that preceded them didn’t want them. [/quote]

Okay, vagina-looker. My ancestors didn’t come here illegally.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Cheap labor helps American businesses thrive, but not for Americans who pay taxes, and need to achieve a standard of living because they don’t live tax free… how is this good for America? Or are you referring to lining the pockets of the CEO’s, COO’s, and stock holders?

What is a cyote? Sorry I may not know the lingo.

Stationing our overseas troops to defend our border, giving them actual work instead of “laying off” military because they are too expensive, is one way to close our borders. You don’t need walls just barbed wire fences and armed guards given permission to fire upon anyone attempting to cross in an “unsanctioned zone.”

I have a sneaking suspicion you either don’t pay much for taxes, or don’t pay much attention to how much of your income is taken by taxes and what percentage of that is fed to people who literally do nothing and offer nothing to a country that is coddling them on our dime.[/quote]

Coyote’s, people who make a living moving other people across the U.S. boarder. They tend to be pretty dangerous folks as are most human traffickers.

When I think about the U.S. militarizing the U.S. Borders, I imagine we end up in another war. But the messed up thing is we end up at war with what is ultimately just a middle man. While we are at war with Mexican drug cartels we will see what happens to the entities within the U.S. who benefit from illegal labor and make money hand over fist, then talk like illegal aliens are the devil. I suspect Mexicans will be quite demonized during this time and other entities will find ways to get drugs into the country or continue building the infrastructure to manufacture them within the country. As it is a lot of the meth products coming from Mex are imported from Asia/ China… Coke is from Columbia/S. America and a tiny portion from Mexico itself…

At least folks like you would see reality for what it is. What will we do? React by sending more jobs to China. How giving China jobs gets a pass in the Republican mind is beyond me. Aren’t they red China commies? I’ll tell you this, Mexico isn’t producing any of the raw materials for drugs, other than really crappy Marijuana that hardly anybody buys.

Comedy gold to me man. Go ahead, militarize the border, you will do Mexico a favor. [/quote]

Exactly what US business entities are making money hand over fist using illegals?

Maybe it happens and I just haven’t seen it, but people are acting like Halliburton and Citi are raking in billions off of the backs of illegal immigrants.

Maybe there are some huge agricultural conglomerates? Who are they?

The only companies employing illegals that I’ve seen have been scummy landscape outfits who won’t pay enough to get regular native labor, and they sure as hell aren’t making money hand over fist. Maybe enough to buy a couple of eight balls on the weekend and fool themselves into thinking that they’re doin it right, but not nearly enough to make up for their lack of actual skill or acumen.
[/quote]

20 years ago, college kids made up the bulk of the landscapers by me. A few kids in a pickup truck with some hand mowers and basic gardening tools. They started in May, worked until they went back to school. Maybe a few that went to school locally kept it going on the weekends.

But nobody wants to bust their ass cutting lawns. I did it all through high school and always has $$ in my pocket.

Now the crews are all Mexicans and Central Americans. Legal or not, who knows? My last year’s landscaping bill came to $147 per month for the citting season. They were always in & out in 15 minutes and my yard looked mint. So I guess the owners were doing pretty well. I was talking to one of the workers last year about what he does in the winter. They go back home and live like kings for 3-4 months and they send $$ home every week. So I don’t think they’re doing that badly.

Rob

[quote]Severiano wrote:

Yep, apparently neither my grandfather nor myself had blue enough eyes or blonde enough hair for their taste back then…
.[/quote]

This is borderline pathetic. He didn’t mention your race a single time.

Why do you play this shitty Alinsky game? You are brighter than this.

So according to this thread, if I was to say the following, I’m now a racist and responsible for the genocide of the Native American?

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is colonization a form of illegal immigration? I know some smart ass will say that there were no laws prohibiting Europeans from coming to the New World and displacing, enslaving and killing Indians but there is right and wrong, some would say even natural laws, and they were also Christians who were supposed to follow more than man’s law. It’s also why I qualified it with “form” of illegal immigration.

I’m not saying what’s going on now is right but the not so subtle racist undertones of some arguments here and a sense of being on some moral high ground tells me that some need a reminder that their ancestors were either Indian killing sociopaths or, were viewed as Mexicans are today (Jews, Irish, Italians, etc.) Chances are that your ancestors were not wanted nor welcomed here either. If they were among the first Europeans it was the Indians who didn’t want them. If they were later immigrants (Irish, Jews, Italians, etc.) then the Europeans that preceded them didn’t want them. [/quote]

Do you accept responsibility for your ancestor’s actions and prostrate yourself to those they might have metaphorically harmed if only by some loose analogy of circumstance?

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Cheap labor helps American businesses thrive, but not for Americans who pay taxes, and need to achieve a standard of living because they don’t live tax free… how is this good for America? Or are you referring to lining the pockets of the CEO’s, COO’s, and stock holders?

What is a cyote? Sorry I may not know the lingo.

Stationing our overseas troops to defend our border, giving them actual work instead of “laying off” military because they are too expensive, is one way to close our borders. You don’t need walls just barbed wire fences and armed guards given permission to fire upon anyone attempting to cross in an “unsanctioned zone.”

I have a sneaking suspicion you either don’t pay much for taxes, or don’t pay much attention to how much of your income is taken by taxes and what percentage of that is fed to people who literally do nothing and offer nothing to a country that is coddling them on our dime.[/quote]

This is where you have a dissconect from reality… Illegal imigrants provide cheap labor more for main st biz then wall st biz… Examples would be the 1000’s of small biz construction cos that build & re-model the majority of US homes… Cleaning co’s ect, ect, ect Are they exploited by meat packing plants & corporate farms sure, but the non corporate american small biz loves cheap labor. Without it many small biz wouldnt survive/thrive

As far as the idea of a demiliterize zone waste of time most illegals find there way here via visas coyotes and tunnel systems… They are people not animals so the whole shoot to kill thing to stop some guy from cutting my grass is just retarded…

As far as taxs go Im a biz owner so I pay what my accountant says I can get away with. Thats the real American way…

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Is colonization a form of illegal immigration? I know some smart ass will say that there were no laws prohibiting Europeans from coming to the New World and displacing, enslaving and killing Indians but there is right and wrong, some would say even natural laws, and they were also Christians who were supposed to follow more than man’s law. It’s also why I qualified it with “form” of illegal immigration.

I’m not saying what’s going on now is right but the not so subtle racist undertones of some arguments here and a sense of being on some moral high ground tells me that some need a reminder that their ancestors were either Indian killing sociopaths or, were viewed as Mexicans are today (Jews, Irish, Italians, etc.) Chances are that your ancestors were not wanted nor welcomed here either. If they were among the first Europeans it was the Indians who didn’t want them. If they were later immigrants (Irish, Jews, Italians, etc.) then the Europeans that preceded them didn’t want them. [/quote]

Do you accept responsibility for your ancestor’s actions and prostrate yourself to those they might have metaphorically harmed if only by some loose analogy of circumstance? [/quote]

It seems to me his basic point–while made with a hostile tone–is that many or even most people think the gates need to close sometime, but that “sometime” is generally only after they have come in and been established here or had ancestors that did so for them. I can see how one could look across the locked gate and think its immoral to try and sneak in because doing so is illegal and at the same time be on the other side of the locked gate and think its the gate itself that’s immoral.

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

Exactly what US business entities are making money hand over fist using illegals?

Maybe it happens and I just haven’t seen it, but people are acting like Halliburton and Citi are raking in billions off of the backs of illegal immigrants.

Maybe there are some huge agricultural conglomerates? Who are they?

The only companies employing illegals that I’ve seen have been scummy landscape outfits who won’t pay enough to get regular native labor, and they sure as hell aren’t making money hand over fist. Maybe enough to buy a couple of eight balls on the weekend and fool themselves into thinking that they’re doin it right, but not nearly enough to make up for their lack of actual skill or acumen.
[/quote]

20 years ago, college kids made up the bulk of the landscapers by me. A few kids in a pickup truck with some hand mowers and basic gardening tools. They started in May, worked until they went back to school. Maybe a few that went to school locally kept it going on the weekends.

But nobody wants to bust their ass cutting lawns. I did it all through high school and always has $$ in my pocket.

Now the crews are all Mexicans and Central Americans. Legal or not, who knows? My last year’s landscaping bill came to $147 per month for the citting season. They were always in & out in 15 minutes and my yard looked mint. So I guess the owners were doing pretty well. I was talking to one of the workers last year about what he does in the winter. They go back home and live like kings for 3-4 months and they send $$ home every week. So I don’t think they’re doing that badly.

Rob[/quote]

Yeah, I understand the model and that it has changed. I did the same thing minus college. Instead, me and another guy built a tree cutting company. The thing is though, the mexicans and centrals running that game are usually legal on temporary work visas.

Hell, my back yard butts up to a farm that employs its entire labor crew like that for the same reason, and their house is about 50 yards away from mine. The guys there are the quietest and most polite people in the entire community. The farm runs it by the books and makes sure that it is a class act from start to finish. Even in heavy industry I’ve been side by side with guys from all over south and central America.

There are probably a couple of reasons why I don’t see the companies making massive profits off of illegals. Main one being that a lot of these guys aren’t illegal. Another is that the ones who think they’re going to run these guys like mules find out really quickly that those dudes didn’t travel a couple thousand miles just to be treated like shit. Finally, a lot of these guys are pretty damn well organized. They look out for each other and communicate way better than most of the blue collar guys I know, and have told each other how to go legit. Then everybody makes a bunch of money and when it gets cold, they go home and party like rock stars.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

It seems to me his basic point–while made with a hostile tone–is that many or even most people think the gates need to close sometime, but that “sometime” is generally only after they have come in and been established here or had ancestors that did so for them. I can see how one could look across the locked gate and think its immoral to try and sneak in because doing so is illegal and at the same time be on the other side of the locked gate and think its the gate itself that’s immoral.

[/quote]

Fair enough, but the fact of the matter remains, there are 300mil people here, and we therefor need order.

Order comes from following the rules.

I love immigrants, and fully understand the value first, second and so forth generations of new ideas, new thinkers, and new spirit bring to our nation. I also know our current system is totally shit. My buddy went through it with his wife, and it is a disaster on every level.

Therefore denying amnesty to people who broke a law will actually prompt those politicians that “care so much for the immigrant” to fix the current system to allow the influx legally, IF THEY ACTUALLY CARED ABOUT THE IMMIGARNT. Thing is, they don’t give two fucks about a Mexican immigrant, Asian immigrant, Irish or Russian. All they care about is their votes, and just like LBJ, if they give them a gift, the know they will vote for the “D” forever.

All the while, in 20 years, the same fucking problem will pop up again. Because none of the current or past immigrants care about the future more than themselves, so they don’t fight for meaning reform, rather a free pass for breaking a law.

America is a wonderful place to live. People die trying to come here. We don’t need a fence, we don’t need amnesty, we need a solution to shit government bureaucracy that has stifled our growth.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

It seems to me his basic point–while made with a hostile tone–is that many or even most people think the gates need to close sometime, but that “sometime” is generally only after they have come in and been established here or had ancestors that did so for them. I can see how one could look across the locked gate and think its immoral to try and sneak in because doing so is illegal and at the same time be on the other side of the locked gate and think its the gate itself that’s immoral.

[/quote]

Fair enough, but the fact of the matter remains, there are 300mil people here, and we therefor need order.

Order comes from following the rules.

I love immigrants, and fully understand the value first, second and so forth generations of new ideas, new thinkers, and new spirit bring to our nation. I also know our current system is totally shit. My buddy went through it with his wife, and it is a disaster on every level.

Therefore denying amnesty to people who broke a law will actually prompt those politicians that “care so much for the immigrant” to fix the current system to allow the influx legally, IF THEY ACTUALLY CARED ABOUT THE IMMIGARNT. Thing is, they don’t give two fucks about a Mexican immigrant, Asian immigrant, Irish or Russian. All they care about is their votes, and just like LBJ, if they give them a gift, the know they will vote for the “D” forever.

All the while, in 20 years, the same fucking problem will pop up again. Because none of the current or past immigrants care about the future more than themselves, so they don’t fight for meaning reform, rather a free pass for breaking a law.

America is a wonderful place to live. People die trying to come here. We don’t need a fence, we don’t need amnesty, we need a solution to shit government bureaucracy that has stifled our growth. [/quote]

I agree a lot of what you are saying. I personally strongly believe in the principle that we should recognize or strengthen a general freedom-to-travel/freedom-of-movement right unless there is a specific reason to deny a person that right, but my pragmatic side recognizes this is a complex problem and there are legitimate reasons that sometimes individual liberty and the freedom to travel must be balanced against sovereignty/security issues as long as we live in a world with separate nations and borders.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

I agree a lot of what you are saying. I personally strongly believe in the principle that we should recognize or strengthen a general freedom-to-travel/freedom-of-movement right unless there is a specific reason to deny a person that right, but my pragmatic side recognizes this is a complex problem and there are legitimate reasons that sometimes individual liberty and the freedom to travel must be balanced against sovereignty/security issues as long as we live in a world with separate nations and borders.

[/quote]

lol, I didn’t even think of security. That is a concern for sure.

I was thinking in terms of pure logistics. Say we have open boarders and there is no real process to organize your life with the state.

How do you get an ID to buy a beer, drive a car. What happens if you get hurt at work? What if you want to open an IRA? What if you want to sue your boss for sexual harassment?

Their needs to be order to make things run smooth and not cause massive hiccups.

I just want a simple, easy to use system where people sign up, pass certain back ground checks, and go on their way contributing to society. It isn’t that hard a concept, but politicians, like anything, screw it up.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

I agree a lot of what you are saying. I personally strongly believe in the principle that we should recognize or strengthen a general freedom-to-travel/freedom-of-movement right unless there is a specific reason to deny a person that right, but my pragmatic side recognizes this is a complex problem and there are legitimate reasons that sometimes individual liberty and the freedom to travel must be balanced against sovereignty/security issues as long as we live in a world with separate nations and borders.

[/quote]

lol, I didn’t even think of security. That is a concern for sure.

I was thinking in terms of pure logistics. Say we have open boarders and there is no real process to organize your life with the state.

How do you get an ID to buy a beer, drive a car. What happens if you get hurt at work? What if you want to open an IRA? What if you want to sue your boss for sexual harassment?

Their needs to be order to make things run smooth and not cause massive hiccups.

I just want a simple, easy to use system where people sign up, pass certain back ground checks, and go on their way contributing to society. It isn’t that hard a concept, but politicians, like anything, screw it up. [/quote]

Okay you two, knock it off with the civil tone and reasonable talk.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

I agree a lot of what you are saying. I personally strongly believe in the principle that we should recognize or strengthen a general freedom-to-travel/freedom-of-movement right unless there is a specific reason to deny a person that right, but my pragmatic side recognizes this is a complex problem and there are legitimate reasons that sometimes individual liberty and the freedom to travel must be balanced against sovereignty/security issues as long as we live in a world with separate nations and borders.

[/quote]

lol, I didn’t even think of security. That is a concern for sure.

I was thinking in terms of pure logistics. Say we have open boarders and there is no real process to organize your life with the state.

How do you get an ID to buy a beer, drive a car. What happens if you get hurt at work? What if you want to open an IRA? What if you want to sue your boss for sexual harassment?

Their needs to be order to make things run smooth and not cause massive hiccups.

I just want a simple, easy to use system where people sign up, pass certain back ground checks, and go on their way contributing to society. It isn’t that hard a concept, but politicians, like anything, screw it up. [/quote]

Logistical problems are very real problems and shouldn’t be ignored, but I agree the focus should be on solving the logistical problem rather than using it as an excuse to restrict freedom.

In a vacuum, I feel like I should have the right to travel/move pretty much anywhere I want, and a state–any state–should have to have a pretty good reason to deny me that right and I wouldn’t expect others to feel differently. At least that’s my personal feeling on the issue.