T Nation

The Marseillaise


If I read the posts on the politics forum I get the impression that Americans and Muslims think that all French are cowards and that Europeans are appeasing wimps.

You are wrong.

That is the text of the Marseillaise, but if you really want to understand it, listen to it.

If that does not convince you not to fuck with us, may Allah have mercy, because we won?t.


Haha. Hey man, I don't think they're pussies at all, mostly because of the Napoleanic Wars

But fighting wars is far different from writing songs.


It took ALL of Europe to take the French down...

In this Freedom of Speech issue we just cannot back down. We just can?t. My children will grow up as free people, there can be no compromise.


Oh, and the last time Germany and Austria went to war united, the world kind of noticed.


I think most Americans don't really realize the predicament of Europeans. It's easy to call European cowards when you're not facing their problems.

I do believe that the biggest mistake Europeans made was to allow themselves to be invaded by greed and lose their work ethics. I have fond memories of the Northern Europe of the Seventies and Eighties, where impeccable business and work ethics and almost complete absence of greed-driven behavior created a haven for the working class -- and a very successful economy. Unfortunately, in the nineties, laziness and greed took over, the work ethics vanished and things went downhill from there.

[WARNING: I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here for a moment. Do bear in mind that what I'm going to write now does not necessarily reflect my personal beliefs -- it's just to better show the size of the predicament Europe now faces]

One can easily argue that loss came from the invasion of both Arab Muslims and Eastern Europeans, neither of which had those ethics.

Americans complain of Latino and Asian immigrants; however neither of these cultures lacks a fundamental sense of work ethics. In fact, they tend to work very hard -- and even if there are many compatibility problems, and illegal immigration is a dramatic problem here, it PALES in comparison of having a whole continent invaded by people who not only lack any work ethics, some of them have viral behaviors -- in the sense they not only won't allow themselves to be assimilated, they will, in fact, want to change Europe into a Muslim continent. Much like Christians did with America and Africa -- not that many centuries ago.

The problem, and the fundamental predicament that Europeans face, is that, currently, there is very little they can do. They cannot ask them to leave. They cannot do anything legal to force them to leave, since they are citizens. Yes, most of "them" (Fundamentalist Muslims) have EU passports.

Plus, even suggesting anything remotely effective, even saying what I say above is easily construed as Nazi spiel -- even though most Europeans, deep down, agree with it -- and nothing short of a -- gasp! -- "Final Solution", this time directed against Muslims, would be... a final solution.

And while Muslim Fundamentalists would be more than happy to personally kill all non-Muslims, the fact remains that most non-Fundamentalists (Muslims or otherwise) are incapable of even remotely suggesting a "Muslim Final Solution". In fact, I might be going to jail right now if I were writing this in Germany.

The thing is: "they" are in Europe. Securing the borders won't do anything. The London bombings were an inside job. People have, by now, forgotten the Paris bombings, since they happened before 9/11 -- but that was an inside job too. There is absolutely NOTHING Europeans can do to prevent a terrorist attack, since the terrorists live there already, are impossible to single out -- much less kick out -- and have easy access to all kinds of lethal materials. Heck, many of them probably work in factories that make those materials.

Remember: terrorists are not afraid to get caught. Most of them are even convinced they are not afraid to die.

Tomorrow a group of terrorists can blow up half of Berlin and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do to prevent that.

Europeans are being held hostage in their own countries. Americans need to realize that and stop calling them cowards without having the faintest understanding of how that feels.

It's like having a hornet's nest inside your living room and not being allowed to kill it.

What I am most worried about is that fundamentalist Muslims push Europeans so far to the right that we'd have another Hitler in our hands, possibly before the end of the 21st century.

Maybe then you won't have Americans calling Europeans cowards...

In the meantime, here's hoping that Europeans take the high road -- and understand that the best way to fight this is to go back to their values of the 70s and 80s and not let greed and laziness take over.


France hasn't been a threat to anyone since the Napoleanic Wars. Since then everyone has whipped their ass including Mexico. Hitler just looked at them funny and they surrendered!

But now, since they write a song we are to believe that they have grown a pair? Give me a break.


Actually the French are important allies and working closely with the US in Afghanaistan.

I would wager that the elite French fighting forces rival the Americans, Brits and Russians, when it comes to training and skill.

Ignorant comment. Shame on you. Learn about the French resistance during WW2, and don't confuse 'the government' with 'the people'.


hspdr, can you elaborate on the relationship between diminished ethics and muslim immigration ? are you saying this is cause and effect or coincidental ?


Accurate comment. Look it up! The French government did surrender in about ten minutes to Hitler. There is no confusion. Only a government can surrender, not the people.


well, dont forget that many french turned nazi pretty quick :wink:


Right. But your ignorant comments slander the French people, not the Vichy government.

Grow up soon.


The French were pretty ferocious in the first world war.


Yea, how conveniantly Verdun is forgotten in the rhetoric.

"The Germans could no longer afford to commit new troops to Verdun and, at a cost of some 400,000 French casualties and a similar number of Germans, the attack was called off. Germany had failed to bleed France to death and from October to the end of the year, French offensives regained the forts and territory they had lost earlier"

400,000 in five months.

When was the last time the United States had that kind of casualty rate? Never, as I recall. In fact, there were 600,000 killed in the Civil War (1861-1865), and that was more than the US has lost in all its other wars combined.

So the French took as many casualties in four months than the US has taken in 150 years.

Not too mention, the French strategy was inerently flawed in WWII, as they had the Maginot Line, a massive fortification system, on their Eastern boundary (they were under the assumption that if the Germans attacked again, it would be in similar fashion to WWI). They were outgeneralled, but that had nothing to do with the soldiers themselves, not too mention alot to do with Hitler's military prowess.

Might want to think twice about slandering a whole race in fighting ability there Lorisco. All men will fight well when properly led- nationality has little to do it.


oh god, its a freaking JOKE.

What next, we shouldn't joke about irish or germans drinkings?

Look, the french cook some mean pastries...let some other nation claim the warrior title.



Good point. The dynamics of the situation do change when you have a large contingent of volatile populace within your own borders -- as citizens.


One one of the french heros of the first world war, Marshall P?tain went on to lead the Vichy government for the Nazis after the french surrendered. After the Nazis lost WWII, Petain fled France. In 1945 he returned, where he was tried for treason, convicted and sentenced to death. The sentence was commuted to life imprisonment on the grounds of his old age. He died in prison.


Yeah, if getting killed in massive quantities is the sign of balls and toughness, then the French and the Russians are, without any possibility of contention, the baddest mofos in the world.


[quote]orion wrote:
It took ALL of Europe to take the French down...

It took all of Europe to take Napoleon down, and in all fairness, Napoleon wasn't French...


Many Europeans will tell you they blame muslims for it.

Personally, I think that's just an excuse... The erosion of work ethics has many other causes that have nothing to do with Muslim immigration.

If anything, it was the greed of European corporations, who wanted cheap labor, that brought them in (sound familiar?).

That does not mean that Muslim immigration did not have some pretty dramattic effects -- especially because of the completely incompatible cultures -- and that it completely changes the rules of the game. It does. In fact, I'm not too proud to admit that the main reason we left Holland (where we lived for 4 years and had pretty high-ranking jobs as advisors for the PvdA) and came back to the US is that my wife and I just couldn't stand Arab Muslims anymore. We can deal with people that have a completely different culture than mine -- but not with Borgs that try to assimilate us.

Theo van Gogh was not as lucky:

Van Gogh was murdered in the early morning of Tuesday November 2, 2004, in Amsterdam in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat streets. He was shot with eight bullets from a HS2000 (a handgun produced in 2000 in Croatia) and died on the spot. His throat was slit, and he was then stabbed in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one pinning a five-page note to his body. The note (Text) threatened Western governments, Jews and Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contains references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra.

The murderer Mohammed Bouyeri, a 26-year-old Dutch citizen, was apprehended by the police after being shot in the leg. Although born in Amsterdam, well-educated and apparently well-integrated, Bouyeri has alleged terrorist ties with the Dutch Hofstad Network. In most Dutch media the suspect is called Mohammed B., since it is common practice in The Netherlands to abbreviate the surnames of crime suspects (or even convicts) in order to protect their privacy. He is also charged with attempted murder of a police officer and bystander, illegal possession of a firearm, and conspiring to murder others, including Hirsi Ali. He was convicted on July 26, 2005 and sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole.

Until his murder Van Gogh was working on a movie about the assassination of Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn. The film was officially released on the internet on December 15, 2004 and had its cinema premiere on January 30, 2005.

Van Gogh was cremated on November 9, 2004 in Amsterdam.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Europeans are being held hostage in their own countries -- with no easy way out.


that is not exactly true.

The real strenght of the french army was that free men, that were led by free men, fought against armies that were led by aristocrats.

In the french army you led men when you had proven that you knew how to do it, in the other armies you led men when you were born into the right family.

That, and the powerful idea of France defined as a nation and not as a bunch of subjects ruled by the same monarch made all the difference, because it led to the "levee en masse" (basically all of France took up arms) which was then led expertly by men who had been bakers, carpenters or whatever else in their civil lifes.

Napoleon being a military genius did help though.

The Marseillaise was written back then and 200 years later we know that they did not only talk the talk, they also walked the walk, which is why it still is the battle anthem for freedom.