T Nation

The Man to End Liddell's Reign

Jeremy Williams

http://www.maxfighting.com/index.cfm?ac=news.detail&nid=682

Most of you probably don’t know the guy, but he is fairly legit. Even though his only fight so far has been against lesser opposition, the guy is a veteran boxer with crisp striking skills. In his first fight, he actually initiated the ground action by scoring the takedown.

Liddell does not want any of this action, though a good wrestler(I don’t know if I’d classify Tito as such anymore) would give him trouble…Rashad maybe?

I’m curious why the UFC hasn’t shown interest, the guy is fairly charasmatic as well. If he sticks with it, he should be fighting in one of the bigger promotions within the next year.

Good call, bro. I know you have said that you’re problem with Liddell is that a good boxer could just come in and wreck him, well there you go! I have been following Jeremy for a bit, and while it is way to early to say, he shows major potential. His hands are awesome, needless to say. It’s just a matter of crash coursing in ju-jitsu in the like to where he can survive. Hopefully he adapts more like Mirko and less like Stefan Leko.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=4763

There’s his boxing record. He tried to enter the K-1 Vegas tournament this year, but NSAC wouldn’t let him because they were scared that he was too small and couldn’t deal with kicks or some athletic commission horse shit. But he would be the best boxer ever to switch to MMA, taking the reigns from Yosuke Nishijima who’s career nose dived after he showed some toughness against Hunt-O.

“I got beat by the guys I was rolling with, but I wasn’t an easy win for a guy on his first day.”

“Wrestling was benefecial because I learned basic techniques for wrestling.”

“My kicks were very pretty.”

“I can break arms with my kicks now.”

“I rolled with Randy Couture a couple times.”

“No one in the mixed martial arts world can handle me with my hands.”

“They are going to be so surprised when they get me to the ground and can’t do anything with me…People are going to be really, really, really shocked at how I can handle myself on the floor.”

“The only way someone is going to beat me now is not because they are better, but because I make a mistake.”

“I know what I can do. I now that if I touch you, it’s over. You have to be a bad motherfucker to beat me.”

“It’s like football and baseball. But I don’t need a team. I need me.”

"JW: How long have you been training for MMA now?

Williams: Two months."

I think I hate this guy already. He may be a great fighter, but the way this interview made him sound annoyed the piss out of me.

Shouldn’t this guy be picking up Million in boxing? Why would a person risk that earning potential.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Good call, bro. I know you have said that you’re problem with Liddell is that a good boxer could just come in and wreck him, well there you go! I have been following Jeremy for a bit, and while it is way to early to say, he shows major potential. His hands are awesome, needless to say. It’s just a matter of crash coursing in ju-jitsu in the like to where he can survive. Hopefully he adapts more like Mirko and less like Stefan Leko.[/quote]

I’ve only been to amatuer boxing matches live before, but watching this guy stalk around the ring and throw jabs was amazing by comparison. I think he has the potential to be more like Mirko or at least a challenger, kind of unsure whether he’ll stick around since he has had trouble getting sanctioned to fight on a couple of occasions, but the potential is there.

[quote]treco wrote:
Shouldn’t this guy be picking up Million in boxing? Why would a person risk that earning potential.

[/quote]

He suffered a rather nasty knockout at the hands of Samuel Peters(#2 HW in the World) in 2004 and hasn’t boxed since. He was a quality boxer. This is as close to a championship boxer as MMA is going to get at this point. I know he comes off as a cocky idiot, but if you’ve watched boxing lately, its kind of the in thing to be a big mouth.

Also, that interview is over a year old, he has been training in MMA for a bit now. Bas Rutten, Randy Couture, and Eddie Bravo have all spent some time with him.

Isn’t Jeremy getting up there in age? 35? 36?
He doesn’t have that much time I think. Though with alot of practice I think he would be a bad match-up for Liddell. I think anybody with good stand-up would be a bad match-up for Liddell. I wonder what Nishijima is doing these days?

his last fight was against Sam Peter, hes been in there with one of the best.

I thought this post was going to be about Rampage.

[quote]SprinterOne wrote:
I thought this post was going to be about Rampage.[/quote]

I’ve been wanting to talk about this one…

I love youtube, but unfortunately it allows a whole bunch of idiots to say retarded things about good fighters. The kind of people who say, “X fighter beat Y fighter, and M fighter beat Y fighter, so M fighter can kick X fighter’s ass…” or “Z Heavyweight could destroy N MIddleweight” are just ridiculous, but if you’re really bored reading through there can give a few kicks.

ANyway, I’m tired of hearing about how “anyone from Pride could beat the best of the UFC, UFC sucks, blah blah blah”. They’re idiots, most everyone knows that, so I won’t go off on a rant about how little sense that makes, but I will talk about Liddell and Jackson.

I just watched that fight again, and I think it was a damn good fight, and it wasn’t a one-sided asskicking of the UFC’s Light-Heavyweight best.

Liddell was throwing alot of jabs, and doing a good job of setting the pace. He just wasn’t landing bombs.

Jackson on the other hand was keeping his guard up, absorbing or deflecting all those jabs, and when throwing punches was landing them, and several times you could see Liddell visibly shaken. I’m definitely not saying they were lucky punches, but a couple bell-ringers will slow ANYONE down. Liddell can throw a harder bell-riner than many, but sometimes you land em’, sometimes you don’t. He didn’t and Rampage did.

After what had already been a good fight, Jackson got the slam, and not many people could survive after that.

I haven’t seen Rampage fight lately, but I’d say their re-match could go either way…just like the last on could have.

p.s. I will give my left testicle to see Arlovski vs. Cro Cop.

[quote]Deserteaglle wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
I thought this post was going to be about Rampage.

I’ve been wanting to talk about this one…

I love youtube, but unfortunately it allows a whole bunch of idiots to say retarded things about good fighters. The kind of people who say, “X fighter beat Y fighter, and M fighter beat Y fighter, so M fighter can kick X fighter’s ass…” or “Z Heavyweight could destroy N MIddleweight” are just ridiculous, but if you’re really bored reading through there can give a few kicks.

ANyway, I’m tired of hearing about how “anyone from Pride could beat the best of the UFC, UFC sucks, blah blah blah”. They’re idiots, most everyone knows that, so I won’t go off on a rant about how little sense that makes, but I will talk about Liddell and Jackson.

I just watched that fight again, and I think it was a damn good fight, and it wasn’t a one-sided asskicking of the UFC’s Light-Heavyweight best.

Liddell was throwing alot of jabs, and doing a good job of setting the pace. He just wasn’t landing bombs.

Jackson on the other hand was keeping his guard up, absorbing or deflecting all those jabs, and when throwing punches was landing them, and several times you could see Liddell visibly shaken. I’m definitely not saying they were lucky punches, but a couple bell-ringers will slow ANYONE down. Liddell can throw a harder bell-riner than many, but sometimes you land em’, sometimes you don’t. He didn’t and Rampage did.

After what had already been a good fight, Jackson got the slam, and not many people could survive after that.

I haven’t seen Rampage fight lately, but I’d say their re-match could go either way…just like the last on could have.

p.s. I will give my left testicle to see Arlovski vs. Cro Cop.[/quote]

I pretty much agree with that analysis. While Chuck did get beat up pretty badly, it was closer than a lot make it out to be. Chuck always has that crazy ability to end a fight at any second. Overeem was wrecking him until Chuck hit him with that right hand. Also, I think Ramp has fallen off a bit while Chuck has improved since 2003. Either way, a close fight. Rampage at heart is a wrestler and will always be the kind of guy Chuck works well against.

AA vs Cro Cop would be cool, and Mirko himself said it’s the match up he wants most. I don’t think it will go well for Arlovski though, he has to pressure Mirko relentlessly and I don’t think he can absorb the damage he will receive in doing so like Hunt was able to.

Since when did liddell get the reputation that he isn’t an awesome striker. So why are people assuming this guy is going to kick his ass?

I like Pride’s version of the Rampage-Liddell fight…its edited so that it looks like Liddell just got dismantled for the entire fight.

Up until the addition of Crocop, I do think you could make the statement that the top 4 or 5 HW’s in Pride would beat any of the UFCs HWs. Well I do give Sylvia more credit than most, he would be the underdog against Fedor, Mirko(no longer with Pride,) Nog, and Barnett…if he didn’t decide to take Hunt down, I don’t think he’d beat him either. Especially since those guys fight each other on a regular basis and not Jeff Monson…the level of competition those HWs experience raises their own level.

As far as the LHW division goes, the UFC had Liddell and that was it. Randy and Tito might have been able to take Wandy down and hold him like Tito did back in 01, but if they were under Pride rules that would garner them a victory. I would like to see Arona vs Liddell…or Shogun.

The UFC’s middleweight(185)division, well getting better, does not compare to the depth of Pride’s 185 lbs.

The UFC owns the welterweight division which Pride doesn’t have anything comparable in…even if they did, it would be hard to compete with Penn, Hughes, GSP, Sanchez, etc, etc

Hard to tell at LW right now since the UFC just reopened their division, but Gomi and Gilbert Melendez are about as good as it gets right now. Penn is supposed to be moving down to LW, but does anyone think Sherk could win a match unless it was under UFC scoring?

I guess the point of all that was, though the UFC is starting to improve their depth, they were lacking in that respect. The top guys in each of their divisions would compete, no doubt, but there was a sharp decline in talent once you passed the top 1 or 2 fighters in the division.

[quote]baretta wrote:
Since when did liddell get the reputation that he isn’t an awesome striker. So why are people assuming this guy is going to kick his ass?[/quote]

How many times has Liddell fought someone we would term a “top striker.” While he is obviously a good striker, he has made most of his career by avoiding takedowns and knocking out wrestlers. Jeremy Williams would probably be a top ten HW boxer right now were he still competing, I’d like to see Liddell match up with that.

[quote]Deserteaglle wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
I thought this post was going to be about Rampage.

I’ve been wanting to talk about this one…

I love youtube, but unfortunately it allows a whole bunch of idiots to say retarded things about good fighters. The kind of people who say, “X fighter beat Y fighter, and M fighter beat Y fighter, so M fighter can kick X fighter’s ass…” or “Z Heavyweight could destroy N MIddleweight” are just ridiculous, but if you’re really bored reading through there can give a few kicks.

ANyway, I’m tired of hearing about how “anyone from Pride could beat the best of the UFC, UFC sucks, blah blah blah”. They’re idiots, most everyone knows that, so I won’t go off on a rant about how little sense that makes, but I will talk about Liddell and Jackson.

I just watched that fight again, and I think it was a damn good fight, and it wasn’t a one-sided asskicking of the UFC’s Light-Heavyweight best.

Liddell was throwing alot of jabs, and doing a good job of setting the pace. He just wasn’t landing bombs.

Jackson on the other hand was keeping his guard up, absorbing or deflecting all those jabs, and when throwing punches was landing them, and several times you could see Liddell visibly shaken. I’m definitely not saying they were lucky punches, but a couple bell-ringers will slow ANYONE down. Liddell can throw a harder bell-riner than many, but sometimes you land em’, sometimes you don’t. He didn’t and Rampage did.

After what had already been a good fight, Jackson got the slam, and not many people could survive after that.

I haven’t seen Rampage fight lately, but I’d say their re-match could go either way…just like the last on could have.

p.s. I will give my left testicle to see Arlovski vs. Cro Cop.[/quote]

I never made the argument Pride fighters are better than UFC fighters (though on the whole, they used to be). I just said I thought this post was going to be about Rampage. He already beat Chuck once, so not sure why he can’t do it again. Could Chuck just as easily beat Rampage? Sure. All I was saying was I thought if someone was going to make a post about ending Chuck’s reign, it would be about Rampage.

[quote]SprinterOne wrote:
Deserteaglle wrote:
SprinterOne wrote:
I thought this post was going to be about Rampage.

I’ve been wanting to talk about this one…

I love youtube, but unfortunately it allows a whole bunch of idiots to say retarded things about good fighters. The kind of people who say, “X fighter beat Y fighter, and M fighter beat Y fighter, so M fighter can kick X fighter’s ass…” or “Z Heavyweight could destroy N MIddleweight” are just ridiculous, but if you’re really bored reading through there can give a few kicks.

ANyway, I’m tired of hearing about how “anyone from Pride could beat the best of the UFC, UFC sucks, blah blah blah”. They’re idiots, most everyone knows that, so I won’t go off on a rant about how little sense that makes, but I will talk about Liddell and Jackson.

I just watched that fight again, and I think it was a damn good fight, and it wasn’t a one-sided asskicking of the UFC’s Light-Heavyweight best.

Liddell was throwing alot of jabs, and doing a good job of setting the pace. He just wasn’t landing bombs.

Jackson on the other hand was keeping his guard up, absorbing or deflecting all those jabs, and when throwing punches was landing them, and several times you could see Liddell visibly shaken. I’m definitely not saying they were lucky punches, but a couple bell-ringers will slow ANYONE down. Liddell can throw a harder bell-riner than many, but sometimes you land em’, sometimes you don’t. He didn’t and Rampage did.

After what had already been a good fight, Jackson got the slam, and not many people could survive after that.

I haven’t seen Rampage fight lately, but I’d say their re-match could go either way…just like the last on could have.

p.s. I will give my left testicle to see Arlovski vs. Cro Cop.

I never made the argument Pride fighters are better than UFC fighters (though on the whole, they used to be). I just said I thought this post was going to be about Rampage. He already beat Chuck once, so not sure why he can’t do it again. Could Chuck just as easily beat Rampage? Sure. All I was saying was I thought if someone was going to make a post about ending Chuck’s reign, it would be about Rampage.

[/quote]

Oh I didn’t think you were it was just kind of a rant. Nothing against your post at all, especially since you didn’t say anything controversial.

Right now I would hesitate to state who would win the AA vs. Cro Cop fight, but I can only imagine how entertaining that would be. Arlovski has got a beautifully technical AND powerful standup, and Cro Cop…well, when I see someone stand up with him I’m just amazed, he’s awesome. As excited as I am to see Liddell and Jackson re-match, I’m more pumped to see Cro Cop.

p.s. If you ever talk to the “PRIDE KICKS EVERYTHING ELSE’S ASS!” people, remind them how many guys from the UFC have gone over there and how many Pride guys have gone to UFC.

About the in thing to talk big and stuff like that, I’m also sure its a hype thing. With that kinda language people WANT to see what he is really capable of and if he can back it up. It’s also a money grabbing thing. Hype up fights. Etc etc.

[quote]Deserteaglle wrote:

p.s. If you ever talk to the “PRIDE KICKS EVERYTHING ELSE’S ASS!” people, remind them how many guys from the UFC have gone over there and how many Pride guys have gone to UFC.

[/quote]

This doesn’t really win you any points, you’re supposed to fight up, not down. Pride has its problems…suspect matchups with circus attractions every now and then, champs fighting without their belt on the line, favoring Japanese fighters. But I’d take all of that over the UFC’s continual output of subpar fights(including much of the stable of “The Ultimate Fighter” veterans) for less than equitable paydays, as well as bringing out fighters who had no business being in the ring with their champs(ie-Royce Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Tank Abbott.)

Now the healthy competition from Pride has affected the UFC, causing them to go out and snatch up better talent in the form of Anderson Silva, Mirko Crocop, Rampage, Jon Fitch, Ryoto Machida(jury is still out on that one.)

The UFC is definitely rising and will probably overtake Pride in the next few years as the American market provides for more lucrative paydays. However, you would be hard pressed to argue that they are the better organization in terms of talent even now, let alone last year when they had none of those guys.

Further, Pride’s scoring is much more applicable to MMA. I’m not saying they are exempt from questionable victories, but their judge’s overall understanding of the grappling/submission game is much better (in my opinion) than the NSAC’s and decisions such as Rashad over the Alaskan Assasin or Deigo over Diaz would not happen under their scoring system as it is an MMA match, not a takedown tourney.

How do you think a fight between Liddell and Silva (Anderson) would turn out?