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The Layer System For Fat Loss

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Update:

I just wanted to say that I feel SO MUCH better having switched to the above template this week. Most weeks I feel just hammered/lethargic by Wednesday morning. Today I feel great and I hit a front squat PR yesterday.

Thanks for the help CT & Brandon! [/quote]

Yes, HDL can really make it hard to recover even though it is a VERY powerful stimulus. Which is why I originally mentionned how important it was to use the original layer system only in a caloric surplus. If you reduce your nutrients uptake you just can’t recover.

But with this lay-out physical recovery is actually “fairly” easy. It’s just a matter monitoring general stress levels to avoid CNS overload.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?[/quote]

I actually feel that something similar to the strength layer would be best. I always felt that the more strenght you can maintain (or gain) while dieting, the more muscle you’ll keep. It is a mistake to use the strength portion of the training as a main fatl oss tool.

So something like this for layers:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM[/quote]

Can anyone point me to a little more descriptive explanation of
–6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM

I’m sorry but I didn’t find it. I threw something together with some of the principles and I like it. Without any direct triceps work, they have grown. I feel harder and people I see every day have noticed.
A link or description would be most appreciated

"For this layer we use 80-85% of the max ramp. Each set has two bouts of reps separated by 15 seconds of rest. You start the first bout by doing as many reps you can with 80% without major form breakdown. When you reach a point where you know that you will not be able to complete one more clean rep, you replace the bar on the supports and rest for 15 seconds. After those 15 seconds, you unrack the bar and try to do as many reps as you can again. Then the set is over.

Extended Sets is a layer that can be used instead of the HDL. Both work great and using both (either back and forth during a training cycle) or doing one method for one training cycle and the other for the next works great" (by CT)

jp_dubya the above means you do a max rep set then rest 15 seconds then do another set with max reps.Depends on what lift your using but i tend to get something like 8 reps rest 15 sec.4or so reps and your done.

[quote]jppage wrote:
jp_dubya the above means you do a max rep set then rest 15 seconds then do another set with max reps.Depends on what lift your using but i tend to get something like 8 reps rest 15 sec.4or so reps and your done.[/quote]

This is my experience as well.

…Although the first part of the set you don’t go max (unable to complete that final rep), then after the 15 sec. you max out till you cannot lift another rep.

[quote]jppage wrote:
jp_dubya the above means you do a max rep set then rest 15 seconds then do another set with max reps.Depends on what lift your using but i tend to get something like 8 reps rest 15 sec.4or so reps and your done.[/quote]
simple enough. Thanks

Might I trouble everyone with another silly question?
If ramping up to 1 RM, then doing a cluster, the cluster is 1 rep every 10 seconds. subtract weight if you can only get three, add if you get up to 6.
Now, when you drop back to 70% of the 1 RM, to ramp up to a 2 RM, when you do the cluster, are you doing this cluster with 1 rep or 2? Same question with 3 RM cluster.

Have the concepts been centralized or are they presented somewhere over the course of days, weeks?
If there is a book coming out, Can I get on a pre release list?

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Might I trouble everyone with another silly question?
If ramping up to 1 RM, then doing a cluster, the cluster is 1 rep every 10 seconds. subtract weight if you can only get three, add if you get up to 6.
Now, when you drop back to 70% of the 1 RM, to ramp up to a 2 RM, when you do the cluster, are you doing this cluster with 1 rep or 2? Same question with 3 RM cluster.

Have the concepts been centralized or are they presented somewhere over the course of days, weeks?
If there is a book coming out, Can I get on a pre release list?[/quote]

When you back down to 70% and ramp up to a 2RM, you only 2 sets of 2, gradually adding weight until your hit your 2RM.

Then you pick 90% of that weight and do clusters with it, the same way as you did earlier (so 1 rep, rest, 1 rep, rest, etc.).

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Might I trouble everyone with another silly question?
If ramping up to 1 RM, then doing a cluster, the cluster is 1 rep every 10 seconds. subtract weight if you can only get three, add if you get up to 6.
Now, when you drop back to 70% of the 1 RM, to ramp up to a 2 RM, when you do the cluster, are you doing this cluster with 1 rep or 2? Same question with 3 RM cluster.

Have the concepts been centralized or are they presented somewhere over the course of days, weeks?
If there is a book coming out, Can I get on a pre release list?[/quote]

When you back down to 70% and ramp up to a 2RM, you only 2 sets of 2, gradually adding weight until your hit your 2RM.

Then you pick 90% of that weight and do clusters with it, the same way as you did earlier (so 1 rep, rest, 1 rep, rest, etc.).[/quote]
Thanks for the rapid response. I kinda figured that, but didn’t want to assume.
Habs are doing well. I assume you will be watching tonight.
Last comment for you or others. After these workouts, I don’t leave the gym as winded, but still tired, if that makes sense. About 90 minutes later, I am ravenously hungry. Like eat a pound of beef withjout chewing hungry. Others have similar experience?

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Might I trouble everyone with another silly question?
If ramping up to 1 RM, then doing a cluster, the cluster is 1 rep every 10 seconds. subtract weight if you can only get three, add if you get up to 6.
Now, when you drop back to 70% of the 1 RM, to ramp up to a 2 RM, when you do the cluster, are you doing this cluster with 1 rep or 2? Same question with 3 RM cluster.

Have the concepts been centralized or are they presented somewhere over the course of days, weeks?
If there is a book coming out, Can I get on a pre release list?[/quote]

When you back down to 70% and ramp up to a 2RM, you only 2 sets of 2, gradually adding weight until your hit your 2RM.

Then you pick 90% of that weight and do clusters with it, the same way as you did earlier (so 1 rep, rest, 1 rep, rest, etc.).[/quote]
Thanks for the rapid response. I kinda figured that, but didn’t want to assume.
Habs are doing well. I assume you will be watching tonight.
Last comment for you or others. After these workouts, I don’t leave the gym as winded, but still tired, if that makes sense. About 90 minutes later, I am ravenously hungry. Like eat a pound of beef withjout chewing hungry. Others have similar experience?[/quote]

If you are hungry, and it is not psychological hunger (to dal with boredom or stress) nor is it mechanical hunger (empty stomach) then it is your body telling you that it needs more nutrients… and why else would it need more nutrients then if you just stimulated a lot of potential growth requiring those nutrients?

oh, and by the way…I hate you for The Pelvic Power Hold. Damn. Major crampage

@CT: For the 5 Day splits now for a normal Hypertrophy Phase and the Strength Phase…What is the most up to date split schedule now?

And I would think the schedule would not change for Fat-Loss Mode Strength Phases either?

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: For the 5 Day splits now for a normal Hypertrophy Phase and the Strength Phase…What is the most up to date split schedule now?

And I would think the schedule would not change for Fat-Loss Mode Strength Phases either?[/quote]

There is no “most up to date schedule”… honestly, the split is something that I never put too much into. I adjust it on the needs and capacities of the individual. Really, the split is only about being able to minimize negative fatigue carryover to be able to perform at a high level moree frequently and to be able to hit the major movement patterns more often.

@CT: So for me personally with a more balanced Split in mind…any issues with this? Should I just go with 2 High Pull days?

Slight Decline Press Variation
High Pull
Slight Incline Press Variation
TrapDead or Squat
Shoulder Press

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: So for me personally with a more balanced Split in mind…any issues with this? Should I just go with 2 High Pull days?

Slight Decline Press Variation
High Pull
Slight Incline Press Variation
TrapDead or Squat
Shoulder Press[/quote]

Yes, high pulls have to be done twice a week, especially when you are not a master at them. It is THE most powerful exercise in the program.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: So for me personally with a more balanced Split in mind…any issues with this? Should I just go with 2 High Pull days?

Slight Decline Press Variation
High Pull
Slight Incline Press Variation
TrapDead or Squat
Shoulder Press[/quote]

Yes, high pulls have to be done twice a week, especially when you are not a master at them. It is THE most powerful exercise in the program.[/quote]
Damn, well age be damned I will begin doing them.

…Don’t be a pussy JP.

hahaha

@CT: I’m just starting back with weights after a long time away (and possibly with terrible deconditioning by this point), but would like to start the Layer System. I’m also training for an endurance type of event (Tough Mudder) that is about 5 weeks out, so I’m having trouble with coming up with my split but with added conditioning. How can I incorporate some conditioning into the split? I was thinking about 2 a days type workouts with conditioning (Swimming, Hill Sprints, Tabata-style KB swings, or complexes ala (http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/screw_cardio_four_complexes_for_a_shredded_physique) in the AM and Layers work in PM? Or should it be the other way around? I care about strength and physique but I also want to make sure I’m still prepared for the event.

As far as my split, I was thinking:
Day 1: High Pulls
Day 2: Incline Tilt BP
Day 3: Off (conditioning only)
Day 4: Deadlift (hoping to get the Deadsquat bar soon)
Day 5: High Pulls
Day 6: Decline Tilt BP
Day 7: off (conditioning only)
repeat for ~5 weeks

I would appreciate your thoughts. Thanks so much!

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
…Don’t be a pussy JP.

hahaha[/quote]
Got it, got it. Although I am bastardizing the program, I am not going to go without the most important piece. Working it in on paper tonight, for use tomorrow.
And the unbelievable power of the pelvic power hold…Damn. Day after, showering, reach around to soap my bum, my lats cramped up again.