T Nation

The Layer System For Fat Loss

CT: I know you mentioned the The Layer System is for maximum strength gains and should be used only for that purpose with full peri nutrition. However after one has completed the full program to be released, and has a bit of fat to lose would you have any thoughts on lowering the volume, since cals would be decreased during a fat loss phase? I would love to still keep The Layer System but modify if needed for a fat loss phase in the future.

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
CT: I know you mentioned the The Layer System is for maximum strength gains and should be used only for that purpose with full peri nutrition. However after one has completed the full program to be released, and has a bit of fat to lose would you have any thoughts on lowering the volume, since cals would be decreased during a fat loss phase? I would love to still keep The Layer System but modify if needed for a fat loss phase in the future. [/quote]

I would decrease HDL a bit, increase peri-workout (either PLAZMA/ANACONDA dose or adding pulses) and lowering calories and carbs the rest of the day.

@CT: Would adding in 20min sled work on the weekends, non training days on a 5 day layer split for fatloss be too much? Im single, 36, desk job, 12- 15 % bf and low stress as far as recovery aspect goes.

And to further potentiate… Could i sneak in 10 min after workouts for this as well?

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Would adding in 20min sled work on the weekends, non training days on a 5 day layer split for fatloss be too much? Im single, 36, desk job, 12- 15 % bf and low stress as far as recovery aspect goes.

And to further potentiate… Could i sneak in 10 min after workouts for this as well? [/quote]

I don’t have a problem with some prowler work on a separate day. I’m not too found of the idea of adding it at the tail end of a layer workout… UNLESS the prowler IS the HDL layer…

For example:

  1. High pulls from blocks ramp to 2RM
  2. High pull clusters 3-5 sets at 90%
  3. Prowler sprints, 6 x 20yds with 30 sec of rest.

CT, I’m thinking of giving this a shot, I need to lose fat, but of course still want to keep/build muscle. Would you recommend ramping to a 2RM and doing only 2 sets of HDL?

What do you think of:
Incline Tilt Bench Press
High Pulls + Rows
Dec Tilt Bench press
High Pulls + Biceps

and just repeat this cycle taking neural charge or off days as needed?

I plan on mid morning training with plazma and MAG-10/finibars pre and post along with afternoon pulses leading up to an evening meal

@Nate: Nice Nate…what about throwing in a leg layer day as well for a 5 day split?

@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?[/quote]

I actually feel that something similar to the strength layer would be best. I always felt that the more strenght you can maintain (or gain) while dieting, the more muscle you’ll keep. It is a mistake to use the strength portion of the training as a main fatl oss tool.

So something like this for layers:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM
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[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?[/quote]

I actually feel that something similar to the strength layer would be best. I always felt that the more strenght you can maintain (or gain) while dieting, the more muscle you’ll keep. It is a mistake to use the strength portion of the training as a main fatl oss tool.

So something like this for layers:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM[/quote]

Hey CT,

Is that all you would do per workout Or would you add in accessory work?

My plan was to do a 5 day layer split like what you posted above, then do 1 accessory movement for 3-4 sets X 6-12 reps, and then end with a finisher (sprints, complex, heavy bag, etc…) Do you think that’s a good idea?

Thanks,
Chris

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?[/quote]

I actually feel that something similar to the strength layer would be best. I always felt that the more strenght you can maintain (or gain) while dieting, the more muscle you’ll keep. It is a mistake to use the strength portion of the training as a main fatl oss tool.

So something like this for layers:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM[/quote]

Hey CT,

Is that all you would do per workout Or would you add in accessory work?

My plan was to do a 5 day layer split like what you posted above, then do 1 accessory movement for 3-4 sets X 6-12 reps, and then end with a finisher (sprints, complex, heavy bag, etc…) Do you think that’s a good idea?

Thanks,
Chris [/quote]

If you do sprints or GPP work, I would not do an assistance lift at first… see how your body handles it first. During a fat loss phase you have lowered recovery capacities, and you wont add much muscle, so adding too much stuff can only hurt your progress.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?[/quote]

I actually feel that something similar to the strength layer would be best. I always felt that the more strenght you can maintain (or gain) while dieting, the more muscle you’ll keep. It is a mistake to use the strength portion of the training as a main fatl oss tool.

So something like this for layers:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM[/quote]

Hey CT,

Is that all you would do per workout Or would you add in accessory work?

My plan was to do a 5 day layer split like what you posted above, then do 1 accessory movement for 3-4 sets X 6-12 reps, and then end with a finisher (sprints, complex, heavy bag, etc…) Do you think that’s a good idea?

Thanks,
Chris [/quote]

If you do sprints or GPP work, I would not do an assistance lift at first… see how your body handles it first. During a fat loss phase you have lowered recovery capacities, and you wont add much muscle, so adding too much stuff can only hurt your progress.
[/quote]

Okay, thanks!

@usm: Personally I wouldn’t add anything in except maybe on an off day. I’ll probably add in a 20-25 min conditioning day, or 45 min elevated hike…taking one day of rest as well per week. The Layer system is intense, that alone five days a week and dropping cals will work just fine. I always have this thing when on a fat loss phase…I must do more more more cause its all about leaning out. When in fact more focus on the lifting days and sticking to the diet will yield better results, and probably more lean muscle gained from keeping energy stores full when training…this is the mindset I’m trying to get into.

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@usm: Personally I wouldn’t add anything in except maybe on an off day. I’ll probably add in a 20-25 min conditioning day, or 45 min elevated hike…taking one day of rest as well per week. The Layer system is intense, that alone five days a week and dropping cals will work just fine. I always have this thing when on a fat loss phase…I must do more more more cause its all about leaning out. When in fact more focus on the lifting days and sticking to the diet will yield better results, and probably more lean muscle gained from keeping energy stores full when training…this is the mindset I’m trying to get into. [/quote]

Ya I have the same problem. I try to do too much I think and I end up burning out or worse eating junk.

Yesturday I did:

1.DS Bar OHP:
Ramp 1RM: 82, 93, 126, 137
Cluster 126 X 5 X 1
Ramp 2RM: 93, 104, 115, 126
Cluster 113 X 5 X 2
Ramp 3RM: 93, 104, 115
Ext. HDL 93 X 12, 5

2.Sprints: 5 X 30 sec.

Today is:

Tue:

  1. Front Squat
    a. Ramp to 1RM (Shooting for 225)
    b. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
    c. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
    d. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
    e. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
    f. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM

  2. Tabata Squats 20:10 X 6 rounds

What do you think? This is my basic template for Mon-Fri (OHP, Front Squat, Cleans, Bench, & Deadlift). Saturday is light beach muscle day and Sunday is Off/Walk.

Here’s what I"m thinking:
Mon: Incline Tilt Bench Press
Tue:High Pulls + Rows
Wed: Jump Rope+Neural Charge
Thu:Dec Tilt Bench press
Fri:High Pulls + Biceps
Sat: Neural Charge+Treadmill sprints (this will depend on recovery)

I know there’s no real “leg” day in there but I think I remember CT saying that high pulls will hit the legs pretty good, and I know everyone says this but I feel my legs are much more muscular than my upper body so that’s where I want to focus on right now

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]brandon76 wrote:
@CT: Can we look at the set up…for the Fat Loss Layer Split. What would one of the layers look like?[/quote]

I actually feel that something similar to the strength layer would be best. I always felt that the more strenght you can maintain (or gain) while dieting, the more muscle you’ll keep. It is a mistake to use the strength portion of the training as a main fatl oss tool.

So something like this for layers:

  1. Ramp to 1RM
  2. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of 1RM (3-5 reps)
  3. Back down to 70% and ramp to 2RM
  4. 2 Cluster or straight sets with 90% of your 2RM (3-5 reps)
  5. Back down to 70% and ramp to 3RM
  6. 1 extended HDL set (max/15 sec/max) with 80% of 3RM[/quote]

Hey CT,I am on a cutting phase and I am using normal layer with the periodization you wrote in other post . It is working so good .I am also doing pulse feast and I am building muscle and melting fat .The only " difference " is the feast, I eat a ton of food haha .But Normal Layer is working so good for me.

@Juli: Nice! Do it.

@Nate: Ah makes sense then.

@Usm: Looks good…If you’re motivated and feel into doing the Tabata and sprint stuff after, by all means hit it. It will pay off…regardless.

Update:

I just wanted to say that I feel SO MUCH better having switched to the above template this week. Most weeks I feel just hammered/lethargic by Wednesday morning. Today I feel great and I hit a front squat PR yesterday.

Thanks for the help CT & Brandon!

Don’t forget a great way to add additional activity and get a lot of great gains is mobility work. Very gentle calorie burner with A LOT of good benefits.