T Nation

The Infamous First Cycle Question!!!

OK guys, Let me start by saying that I have done a good amount of research, read all the back issues of t-mags, loved Strasseroids, and Bill Robert’s articles among others, looked at “first cycle” threads here and everywhere else, but I still need personal advice. I’m not in a hurry to jump on the juice, but I think I have found a good source, am still doing research on him, and when I feel comfortable I will make the buy. Also, I just had hernia surgery a few days ago, so I’m home from work, can study this stuff alot, but my hernia keeps me from jumping into anything too quickly… I am 21 (22 in a few days). I have been lifting hardcore for four years. I HAD come close to a personal plateau when I had my surgery, and when I reach it again, I will be ready. I am 6’1", I was right at 200lbs, (morning, naked), and am 12% bodyfat. I have the typical fears that a first timer has, but can work through those. - I would like to make both size and strength gains, and hopefully keep a susbstancial amount. - I am considering using Sustanon 250 @ 500 mg per week, and Deca @ what 300-400mg/ wk? Of course I would use clomid, but wonder how much, and also wonder if anything else I should use. I am leery about cost since it is my first time, and I don’t want to lose $400. I can get Sus in a 10ml vial, so it doesn’t have to be exaclty 500mg, could be like 400mg, or whatever you guys think is best. Since I would be buying the 10ml vial of sus, if I took 500mg/week, I don;t want to buy more right now, so I’m looking at a 5 week cycle. Also the deca is 10 mg sublinguals, so I could take them throughout the day. I don’t plan on telling my wife as she would kill me, nor my workout partner, as he would kill me also. So I’m on my own with this one. Also, I am a youth pastor, and have 3-5 guys come over to my house and lift every afternoon, which presents additional problems, but they are all newbies, so I will explain the gains as 500g of protein a day. If they take that much as someone first starting out, they will make the same gains I do, I suspect. Also, I am the typical needle phobic, so I would like to keep the only inj, down to sus only. - And, if I take 500mg. sustanon/ week, should I take it once per week, or 250 every 3-4 days? Lots of Questions, but I know you guys will help. Thanx AnimalMass

Hey I know what it’s like having a dumbshit wife (just kidding about the dumbshit part). All jokes aside my wife says Clen is OK because her girlfriend used it and lost 20 some odd lbs. but she would kill me if she ever found out about the Juice. Anyway, I’ve had quite a bit of experience back in the day with cycles. I personally would just start off with Sostenon at 500mgs per week. See what it does. Then for your next cycle stack it with Deca or D-bol depending what kind of gains you are looking for.
500g of protien sounds like BS tell them 2g og protein per lb. of bodyweight and a shitload of calories like 4500 cal…

Thanx for the response! I wish Bill or Brock would jump in on this one. Please help with more responses. I wonder if just doing the 500mg/ wk is ok? It would save me $100+ bucks…who knows…Bill, Brock, Save me!

I have never heard of sublingual Deca. Are you sure its not a cyclodextrin pro hormone?

There’s definitely no such thing as sublingual Deca… and if anyone made it, it wouldn’t work. If this “reliable source” is selling something he calls sublingual Deca, I’d have to
worry about the legitimacy of anything he sold.

There’s nothing that precise about how many
milligrams to use. Whether say 900 mg/week
or 1000 mg/week is just a matter of slight
difference in the balance between rate of
gains and side effects.

You can use both Deca and Sustanon in the
same cycle even if wanting to minimize
injections: both can be mixed in the same
syringe. (However, you might want to watch
out for the needle-dulling issue from
inserting into two ampules: for example
you could swap needles, or load into the
back of another syringe.)

As mentioned many times before, I would
use Clomid at 50 mg/day, with the first
day having six doses of 50 mg so as to
immediately get blood levels up to where
they will then stay at that dosage level.
(Clomid has a long half life so each day,
you don’t have only the amount you just
took, but also another 5 days’ worth in
your system.)

Thanx Bill for your response! - One more quicky, would it be better to use DBol as opposed to deca? It seems in some of your articles you suggest the su/ dbol stack? what do you think?

I don’t remember particularly advocating
the Sustanon/Dianabol stack. A disadvantage
of it is that both aromatize easily, so if
no antiaromatase is used, you will wind up
with a lot of total estrogen being produced.

Another factor is that Sustanon is not
so deficient in Type II activity anyway,
so if using say a gram of testosterone per
week, while Dianabol can still add, it’s
not as dramatic as with say Primo or Deca
where the non-AR-mediated activity was
(apparently) really lacking.

I like the Sustanon/Deca combination or
the Deca/Dianabol combination better than
the Sustanon/Dianabol stack, but
that’s not to say that this last stack
hasn’t been used successfully by a lot of
guys because of course it has.

So what about Sust/Winstrol stack - or a Primo/Dbol ;-)…

Wow, unbelievable that Bill Roberts would answer 2 questions in one day! You’re great! I feel so much more comfortable now that I know the Sus/ Deca is right for me. Lastly, if I decide to go 500mg/ week sus, and 300mg/ wk deca, then should I shoot it every 3-4 days? (250mg, and 150mg?) This is since my deca is 150mg/ml, and so the 800mg is 4ml, too much for one shot, right? Wouldn’t this help the short half life “prop.” in the sus. anyway?