T Nation

The Greatest Generation?

Yes, they won WWII, fought Hitler, Japan, and oppression. But can you really be that great when you treat women and black people like shit?

what, you think they started that stuff? if it weren’t for their gen, we wouldn’t be here to bitch about that stuff. i think they were the greatest so far.

No I don’t think that generation started sexism and racism. Maybe I should revise my topic. When someone says how much better it was back then, why would you want to go back to a period when people were oppressed more than they are today?

It was WWII that started ‘women’s lib’ women ran the factories and everything else. Granted, if men had been here it would have been different… but WWII got women out of thier ‘traditional’ jobs. It just never stopped after that.

The grass is always greener...

More oppressed than today? That would depend on whom your reffering to.

If they were so racists and sexist why did they fight the Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan? After all they stopped with a lot of help from the Soviets Hitler?s genocide of Negroes, Semites and Mongols. Fought against the Japanese who raped on an industrial levels (i.e. the so called ?comfort women?). And what thanks do they get? To have their blood sacrifice laughed at by the likes of you. Go give yourself an uppercut! If anyone thinks they are the greatest generation it should be blacks and women because if they did not exist their lives would be a lot worse.

Well, you know what they say. Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be.

Elliott: I hope you’re not saying the war was fought to stop Hitler because of his racial views…

For the people of Europe (e.g. English, French, Poles, Russians etc) and Asia (e.g. Koreans, Chinese, Philippines, Malays etc) the way against Fascism was a conventional war based on the possession of land and resources. But for the rest of the allies (e.g. Americans, Canadians, South Africans and in the European theater Australians and New Zealanders) the war was about ideology. The lands of the Americans, Canadians and South Africans were never really seriously threatened by invasion. By they believed that the ideology of Fascism (which included racial ideology) was a threat and had to be stopped. So yes I am saying that for the allies who were never directly threatened by invasion the war was fort based on ideology, which included stopping Hitler’s worldview based on race.

"To have their blood sacrifice laughed at by the likes of you. Go give yourself an uppercut! "

Elliot, I’m not laughing at anyone, nor am I going to hit myself for something you accuse me of. I posted this topic for some dicussion, not personal attacks by you. It seems you are basing what you are posting on psuedoscience, and not fact. Whereas, we know that women and blacks were treating badly in that time period, and also today.

First of all you should not speak ill of the dead. In Germany it is a crime to defame the memory of the dead of World War Two. Men and women of that generation from all over the world fought fascism so the world would be a tolerable place to live in. For history to be constantly be re-written with all of the good removed or played down and all of the bad amplified is a sickening attempt to stain the memory of that generation and destroy the pride that their decedents should have in their ancestors. What I said was not meant to be a personal attack ?go give yourself an uppercut? is not a literal command but a turn of phase, which shows displeasure. But I get so angry when my history, my culture, my race, my religion, my sex is constantly attacked. I object to the agenda that governments, media, academia push which is in essence that white christian men are devils responsible for all the ills of the world and the world would be a lot better of if we just died out. I was wrong about South Africa fighting with the allies. Being part of the British Commonwealth I thought they would fight but they remained neutral due to their large German population. Other than that I do not see how what I posted was psuedoscience. If I have told any lies or mistruths or you disagree with my arguments please list your grievances. Just so we are on the same page could you please list examples of how women and blacks were treated badly then and today? Also could you give examples of how women and blacks were treated well then and today? For example it was the leader of that generation Harry Truman who desegregated the US military, which lead to the desegregation of society. Also could you weigh up the oppression of blacks and women by the west then and now against the crimes and oppression committed by others societies.

To Michelle – yes, it was WWII that created the “Rosie the Riveter” role, where women were forced to work outside the home. That did indeed start the “women’s lib” movement. Couple that with the changes to the corporate mindset (as an example, bearing design lives in cars were halved), the first real inflation, and the stage was set for the economic problems we face today. Latch-key kids because dad and mom HAVE to work to be able to support a family. Two and three job families. This has also precipitated the proliferation of teen gangs (kids don’t have role models at home any more).

But I do believe that the WWII generation was indeed the greatest generation (and I think it was Peter Jennings that started that phrase). Come on, the baby boom? These guys came back form a war and got busy with the program.

Yes they really were that great even with all thier faults. I hope the current generation can accomplish as much. The US Military has not had a match since Vietnam. We fought two opponents at the same time which matched us militarily at the start. A lot of people died, for thier ideals, and to protect thier families back home. Hope we would do the same today instead of negotiating a settlement.

Compare that generation to a recent episode of that 70’s show I saw.

Son (eric): Dad come on you were 17 once what did you do with your friends on prom night.

Father (red): When I was 17 on prom night I was getting shot at by Japanese snipers on Iwo Jima…you wouldn’t understand.

I grew up in Cape Town and my Grandfathers (bless them) used to tell me stories of the war. I have their war medals. I have the photo that was taken when my Grandfather was admitted to a German POW camp. I am filled with unbound respect when I think about the sacrifices these men made. Please don’t diminish that sacrifice by saying that South Africa remained neutral when they didn’t.
Regards
BMF

that show is my favorite. red’s the best.

How great? Look where we are now, our generation. Women can beat the shit out of a man, and if the man complains, he’s called a pussy, and no-one takes it seriously. However, even if a man DEFENDS an attack on his person by a woman, he’s in jail, no questions asked. Let me ask you a question. The jails. What race makes up the majority of the population? The ghetto’s. Who lives there? Why do once nice neighborhoods turn bad? Who is constantly trying to get reparations for things that happened hundreds of years ago? These people don’t even know their relatives, they just want easy money without the work. Answer those questions, and then you will see why these general attitudes, however wrong and misguided, persist.

Elliot, you state “But for the rest of the allies (e.g. Americans, Canadians, South Africans and in the European theater Australians and New Zealanders) the war was about ideology.” Gotta disagree to some extent, the non-european allies were/are members of the commonwealth and joined in because of the ‘Mother country’ - England, and their invovement. Also the US didn’t get involved till after Pearl Harbour. Michelle the womens movement was extremely active prior to WW2, more likely it gained general acceptance and appeal. The psyche was very different of that generation with less questioning of authority and this was probably a big contributor to the inter-generation conflict of the 60’s. The best generation? I don’t know, what about the pioneers/settler generations, imagine going to uninhabited/hostile places with wagons breaking down, no bridges or roads. Each generation has its own claim to the greatest, the biggest change I see is attitude. We seem to have lost the ability to graft it out when the going gets tough, could todays generation handle the suffering of the depression?

So, JJones, it is the fault of the blacks and the women that things aren’t wonderful now? How about whiney people who always point fingers at others instead of being responsible for their own failures and shortcomings??

To JJones (and anyone else).

The problem with human beings is that with each generation there is always some ideology causing trouble for citizens. Also since each generation is human and therefore will have its faults as we all do. Fortunately our brave men and women is uniform won WWII allowing us to sleep well at night.

While it is true that the WWII generation had ideas that were less than admirable they nonetheless gave a tremendous contribution to the United States and even the world.

Women treated like shit? Perhaps but that depends on who you talk to. I could take the stance that today the white male is under a heavy weight in this generation; particularly in the family courts. Yes JJones men certainly have no rights regarding self defense anymore due to a silly assumption by the law. Something which needs to be completely radified. Whether your a man or woman the law needs ot recognize that humans in general have the capacity for evil. Something which I find blatantly obvious.

The problem the blacks have that I see is a lack of fathers in their lives. From what I’ve read 70% of black households are without fathers. That is shocking and depressing. Its no wonder our young black men are in the shape they are in. This vicious cycle will continue as well until they stand up and decide to take the bull by the horns. I hope they do to end this tragic cycle. The believe that the lack of a stable home is the #1 enemy of African-Americans not “whitey” (this problem is not limited to blacks obviously but is more prolific).

Unfortunately you have serpents such as Johnny Cochrane who I gaurantee dont care one bit for blacks but is more instead intent on lining his pockets. His God is money. For instance by his intention to sue the NFL for “not hiring enough minority coaches” he could cause further racial tensions and perhaps even a backlash (at this rate). Yet does anyone think he cares about this? Of course not. Cochrane sees $$$$ and nothing else. He is doing a lot of damage to the black community if you ask me and I fear if people like him, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton go too far they could do severe damage to the people they claim they’re helping.

AS you can see each generation has it’s positives and negatives and sadly one negative becomes overrided with an opposing negative rather than a positive in many cases.
Hopefully one of these days humans will at least get it straight instead of rocking from one extreme to the other, though I doubt it.

I don’t want to attack the WWII generation; I admire the sacrifices those men and women made, but I can’t stop thinking about the fact that the war in the pacific was largely a racial one. While the war in Europe (to the Americans) was a moral one (Stop Hitler and the evil Nazis) the war in the Pacific was more along the lines of “kill the Japs”. Have you seen some of the propaganda comics from the 40’s about the war with the Japanese? How about that government sanctioned video featuring an “analysis” of Japanese culture? The original plans for the movie called for a Japanese person to narrate the video, but since no self-respecting Japanese man would do it, a Caucasian in makeup was hired for the job, and the makeup appeared to make him look like some sort of ape or monkey. Looking back is always easier than living, I suppose, and most of them back then were a great generation of people, but now most people tend to treat them as though they were all perfect. No one is ever perfect.

Stupid question, which presupposes a lot. Why would you think that most people “treated women and black people like shit”? My parents are of that gen, and I have NEVER heard either of them use the N word or any other slur. Also, I think women are treated a LOT more respectfully by older gentlemen. While there were problems, I don’t see how you can indite an entire generation for them. Chris Rock has it right " Blacks are only 12% of the population. Take away Detroit, NYC, LA, Atlanta, and Chitown and there aren’t many left." I would wager that many people that grew up in the 20s and 30s didn’t even know any blacks, and so couldn’t treat them anyway at all.