The Gravy Train Has Left the Station

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

You said the only country that lies is the US and now you are mealy mouthing it. You are full of shit which makes you the liar and discussion impossible. you have earned nothing more.[/quote]

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my post for practice purposes:

Then, try again.

22

[quote]hedo wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

A vast conspiracy is not an answer. I a politcal system with opposing parties vast economic conspiracies are not likely or possible. Too many people involved with different agendas.

Economic statistics are compiled from hundreds of sources in the US as well as private investment firms. No single “ministry” or “minister” has the opportunity to fudge them.

[/quote]

Hedonic statistics and gas, food and CPI.

Google them.

It is the official interpretation of the raw data that is questionable.

For example, a 10 times faster computer chip is counted as a ten times increase of productivity (not entirely true, but for discussion purposes). Do you type your reports or whatever ten times faster because of it? Because that is what a ten times increase in productivity would actually mean in plain old conservative economic terms.

Also, gas and food, which means two out of three of GAS FOOD AND LODGING ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE CORE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX. They are to volatile, meaning they rise to fast and foreign investors might notice if that is part of an official number.

23

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
hedo wrote:
I think they would be foolish to invest it anywhere else. The US economy on a trend line of over 100 years is resiliant. The EU is a gamble and so are emerging economies. They may all develop into riskless economies in the future but they aren’t now and couldn’t support the sudden influx of investment. Besides US goods, services and properties are at bargain prices due to a falling dollar.

are you saying i get to buy things cheaper with my crappy dollar? i dont follow.
[/quote]

No, it means that exported American goods and services are cheaper than before for foreigners.

A very simplified, theoretical example: If ABC Company exports widgets to sell in Europe at a price of $10, and the Euro increases relative to the dollar (for example, let’s say that the Euro went from $1.25 to $1.60), then it costs a European fewer Euros to buy the widget now (when the Euro is at $1.60) then it did before (when the Euro was at $1.25). Before, a widget cost 8 Euros. Now, it costs 6.25.

Foreigners can get more bang for their local currency when purchasing American exports when the dollar is weak.

While you only hear about the negative (negative to Americans, that is) implications of a weak dollar in the media and from the Euros on this forum, there are many other positive implications of a weak dollar. It’s like a bear market: bad for some, awesome for others, yet most people still think falling markets and a weak dollar are universally bad.

24

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

You said the only country that lies is the US and now you are mealy mouthing it. You are full of shit which makes you the liar and discussion impossible. you have earned nothing more.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my post for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

Then, try again.

[/quote]

Sorry, you are wrong. The US often reports conflicting data because there are conflicting sources. If you cannot handle that it is your problem.

It is quite funny you put more faith in the People Republic of China’s reporting of data. Your anti-American stance is so blatant it poisons your every post and likely your every thought.

So basically, you are full of shit.

25

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

You said the only country that lies is the US and now you are mealy mouthing it. You are full of shit which makes you the liar and discussion impossible. you have earned nothing more.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my post for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

Then, try again.

Sorry, you are wrong. The US often reports conflicting data because there are conflicting sources. If you cannot handle that it is your problem.

It is quite funny you put more faith in the People Republic of China’s reporting of data. Your anti-American stance is so blatant it poisons your every post and likely your every thought.

So basically, you are full of shit.[/quote]

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my posts for practice purposes:

Then, try again.

26

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

You said the only country that lies is the US and now you are mealy mouthing it. You are full of shit which makes you the liar and discussion impossible. you have earned nothing more.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my post for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

Then, try again.

Sorry, you are wrong. The US often reports conflicting data because there are conflicting sources. If you cannot handle that it is your problem.

It is quite funny you put more faith in the People Republic of China’s reporting of data. Your anti-American stance is so blatant it poisons your every post and likely your every thought.

So basically, you are full of shit.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my posts for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

…

Then of course the Chinese lie. They also grow so fast that they have a measurable impact on commodity prizes so something is happening there.

…

It is the official interpretation of the raw data that is questionable.

For example, a 10 times faster computer chip is counted as a ten times increase of productivity (not entirely true, but for discussion purposes). Do you type your reports or whatever ten times faster because of it? Because that is what a ten times increase in productivity would actually mean in plain old conservative economic terms.

Also, gas and food, which means two out of three of GAS FOOD AND LODGING ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE CORE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX. They are to volatile, meaning they rise to fast and foreign investors might notice if that is part of an official number.

…

Then, try again.
[/quote]

You are not that subtle or complex. You need to work on your posting and my reading comprehension is fine.

27

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

You said the only country that lies is the US and now you are mealy mouthing it. You are full of shit which makes you the liar and discussion impossible. you have earned nothing more.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my post for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

Then, try again.

Sorry, you are wrong. The US often reports conflicting data because there are conflicting sources. If you cannot handle that it is your problem.

It is quite funny you put more faith in the People Republic of China’s reporting of data. Your anti-American stance is so blatant it poisons your every post and likely your every thought.

So basically, you are full of shit.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my posts for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

…

Then of course the Chinese lie. They also grow so fast that they have a measurable impact on commodity prizes so something is happening there.

…

It is the official interpretation of the raw data that is questionable.

For example, a 10 times faster computer chip is counted as a ten times increase of productivity (not entirely true, but for discussion purposes). Do you type your reports or whatever ten times faster because of it? Because that is what a ten times increase in productivity would actually mean in plain old conservative economic terms.

Also, gas and food, which means two out of three of GAS FOOD AND LODGING ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE CORE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX. They are to volatile, meaning they rise to fast and foreign investors might notice if that is part of an official number.

…

Then, try again.

You are not that subtle or complex. You need to work on your posting and my reading comprehension is fine.[/quote]

You claimed that I posted that the US is the only country lying with statistics.

I never did.

You claimed I trusted the Chinese government.

I posted that they lie.

You called me a liar. I do not take kindly to that and you cannot back that up, basically lying yourself, though you could easily have obtained better knowledge by scrolling 5 fucking inches upwards and fucking read what I fucking posted.

So either you are lazy, dimwitted, illiterate, lying or all of the above.

Fuck you.

28

[quote]orion wrote:
…

You claimed that I posted that the US is the only country lying with statistics.

I never did.

You claimed I trusted the Chinese government.

I posted that they lie.

You called me a liar. I do not take kindly to that and you cannot back that up, basically lying yourself, though you could easily have obtained better knowledge by scrolling 5 fucking inches upwards and fucking read what I fucking posted.

So either you are lazy, dimwitted, illiterate, lying or all of the above.

Fuck you.

[/quote]

You claimed that the US is the only country that lies (your little verifiable qualifier is bullshit).

I see right through your crap and you get upset.

29

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

You claimed that I posted that the US is the only country lying with statistics.

I never did.

You claimed I trusted the Chinese government.

I posted that they lie.

You called me a liar. I do not take kindly to that and you cannot back that up, basically lying yourself, though you could easily have obtained better knowledge by scrolling 5 fucking inches upwards and fucking read what I fucking posted.

So either you are lazy, dimwitted, illiterate, lying or all of the above.

Fuck you.

You claimed that the US is the only country that lies (your little verifiable qualifier is bullshit).

I see right through your crap and you get upset. [/quote]

Well, I guess you will be first in line in the heavenly kingdom.

There is not much i can offer you in this here “reality”.

30

To make the analogy more accurate, wouldn’t the American on the island have a really big gun with advanced features which he pointed at the Asians and wild animals on the island while the Asians fed him?

31

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
To make the analogy more accurate, wouldn’t the American on the island have a really big gun with advanced features which he pointed at the Asians and wild animals on the island while the Asians fed him?

[/quote]

If the gun needs expensive maintenance that relies on Asian production then yes.

Anyway, since some Asians sport pretty impressive guns too, violence is not an option.

32

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
I think they would be foolish to invest it anywhere else.

Spoken like a trader who gets paid a commission.

Wouldn’t it be more prudent for foreign investors to diversify risk?

The US economy on a trend line of over 100 years is resiliant.

Resiliency doesn’t mean anything to a person who loses their entire investment on a single downswing.

The EU is a gamble and so are emerging economies. They may all develop into riskless economies in the future but they aren’t now and couldn’t support the sudden influx of investment.

This state of zero risk can only exist with perfect knowledge of the future. In other words, it doesn’t exist.

Besides US goods, services and properties are at bargain prices due to a falling dollar.

Let us distinguish between investment in consumer and capital goods. Right now we are seeing the effects of malinvestment in consumer goods – for example, the collapse of the housing market. Capital goods are STILL a good investment but it will be harder to get loans to grow them any further because of the aforementioned “crisis”.

We need to shift our consumptive habits to saving. Fortunately, the corrective forces are already at work bankrupting people – whether they consume less is doubtful but at least they will be kept from incurring more debt.[/quote]

Traders take a profit not a commission. Not releavant to the discussion regardless. Nor is the fact academics get paid a salary and do not have the burden of bearing responsibility for poor decisions or bad ideas both of which are held against the trader almost immediately.

I didn’t say zero risk I mentioned risk management and whether you have a perfect knowledge of the future is a debating point not a rational basis for decision making.

Part of risk managment is divesification and yes that is what prudent investors do, in the same regard prudent investors aren’t “wiped out” in single downturns and a country investing in T-Bonds or Notes arent going to be wiped out ever.

The credit crisis is largely a crisis for the borrower with poor credit or no capital to invest. Credit worthy borrowers can easily obtain mortgages and capital. It simply requires good credit and adequate coverage ratios. In other words banks and lenders are being prudent. Besides although foreclosurers are up, as a perecentage of total homes owned in America, the number is actually very low. Less then a percentage point. Again it was caused largely by sub prime borrowers overextending themselves.

I don’t have an issue with people saving more. I think they should. I don’t have any issue with consumption. My intent was to discuss the points of the Schiff article primarily, not idealogy.

33

[quote]Fullback33 wrote:
hedo wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
hedo wrote:
Going forward the US has always managed risk well and US corporations are experts in risk management. How about China?

How much does it matter how well risk is managed while accruing debt? This just shifts risk to the lender. To answer your question, China would be fool to keep lending to us. That is called risk management.

I am not trying to imply that debt isn’t useful. It most certainly is but eventually the bill becomes due and one would be careful to not accrue more than one can pay back. However, ones eventual death will be the “get out of jail free” card.

I think they would be foolish to invest it anywhere else. The US economy on a trend line of over 100 years is resiliant. The EU is a gamble and so are emerging economies. They may all develop into riskless economies in the future but they aren’t now and couldn’t support the sudden influx of investment. Besides US goods, services and properties are at bargain prices due to a falling dollar.

are you saying i get to buy things cheaper with my crappy dollar? i dont follow.
[/quote]

Exports are cheaper from the US. Foriegn buyers purchase more leading to expansion, profits and hiring at home.

34

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.

So, to bring this discussion back to your level of economic understanding, no, you´re full of shit.

You said the only country that lies is the US and now you are mealy mouthing it. You are full of shit which makes you the liar and discussion impossible. you have earned nothing more.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my post for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

Then, try again.

Sorry, you are wrong. The US often reports conflicting data because there are conflicting sources. If you cannot handle that it is your problem.

It is quite funny you put more faith in the People Republic of China’s reporting of data. Your anti-American stance is so blatant it poisons your every post and likely your every thought.

So basically, you are full of shit.

Reading comprehension. Work on it.

Use my posts for practice purposes:

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

What will the economic consequences for the US be?

…

Then of course the Chinese lie. They also grow so fast that they have a measurable impact on commodity prizes so something is happening there.

…

It is the official interpretation of the raw data that is questionable.

For example, a 10 times faster computer chip is counted as a ten times increase of productivity (not entirely true, but for discussion purposes). Do you type your reports or whatever ten times faster because of it? Because that is what a ten times increase in productivity would actually mean in plain old conservative economic terms.

Also, gas and food, which means two out of three of GAS FOOD AND LODGING ARE NO LONGER PART OF THE CORE CONSUMER PRICE INDEX. They are to volatile, meaning they rise to fast and foreign investors might notice if that is part of an official number.

…

Then, try again.

You are not that subtle or complex. You need to work on your posting and my reading comprehension is fine.

You claimed that I posted that the US is the only country lying with statistics.

I never did.

You claimed I trusted the Chinese government.

I posted that they lie.

You called me a liar. I do not take kindly to that and you cannot back that up, basically lying yourself, though you could easily have obtained better knowledge by scrolling 5 fucking inches upwards and fucking read what I fucking posted.

So either you are lazy, dimwitted, illiterate, lying or all of the above.

Fuck you.

[/quote]

So to be clear. Your position is that the US Government is manipulating economic statistics and data in order to create a better economic condition then acutally exists? A simple yes or no or minimal qualifier would be fine.

If you believe that to be the case is it a conspiracy or simply a screw up by large numbers of people?

Has it been going on long or just the last 7 years? For example did the Clinton administration participate in the cover up?

If the Govenment and Private investment banks can’t compile this data to the satisfaction of foriegn investors, who would be better equipped to do so?

35

Obama will fix everything.

36

[quote]hedo wrote:

So to be clear. Your position is that the US Government is manipulating economic statistics and data in order to create a better economic condition then acutally exists? A simple yes or no or minimal qualifier would be fine.
[/quote]

Yes!

If it has to be an either/or it is a conspiracy.

If you want to call a very imaginative and euphemistic interpretation of raw data that benefits the mother organization
of the organization that does it a conspiracy.

I´d rather call it creative bookkeeping.

That started in the Clinton years and then picked up steam.

Since the raw data is available, anyone that has no interest in the outcome.

There are already private estimates for changes in M3 because the Fed does not publish them anymore.

For more on the rise of hedonic statistics in the US:

http://www.google.at/search?hl=de&q=hedonic+statistics&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=

A pretty good summary:

…

Let’s look at GDP. That’s a fundamental figure, surely beyond question or compromise. Really? Our GDP stats include something called a “hedonic price index” basically to allow for the fact that computers are becoming more powerful at lower costs. In essence, the US grosses up the price of computers in its GDP reports to adjust for the fact that computer prices are dropping.

These adjustments are significant. The US is the only country that uses hedonic indexing. The Bundesbank complained that if they calculated GDP the way we did, their GDP growth would be 0.5% higher. And the cumulative distortion is massive. In 2005, Michael Shedlock contacted the Bureau of Economic Advisers and they supplied some dated information on hedonics (including a spreadsheet). Even so, he found that hedonic adjustment to GDP was 2.257 TRILLION dollars, or 22% of then-current GDP.

Another fundamental statistic, inflation, is also manipulated. The hedonic adjustments of GDP means we can’t rely upon a simple, economy measure other countries use to look at inflation, namely a GDP deflator. No, we have to rely on indices, which means we have to rely on the selection of baskets of goods and services that get tracked over time. But things get thrown out of those baskets if they become inconvenient. For example, now when the powers that be report the Consumer and Producer Price Indexes they focus on “core inflation” which excludes food and energy prices ostensibly because they are volatile. But what good is an index if it omits a very big portion of household budgets? Yet most reporters and analysts happily follow the government’s lead. Barry Ritholtz calls this “inflation ex inflation.”

…

37

And a few more because it really is hard to believe at first:

http://www.new-fed.com/other/2000/ref_quality_adj_2742.html

The actual U.S. rate of inflation is higher by 3 times or more, than the Consumer Price Index (CPI) official rate of 3.4% posted by the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor. The CPI is corrupted by the Quality Adjustment Method (formerly called the Quality Adjustment Factor), which covers up and hides inflation, and also distorts U.S. Gross Domestic Product and industrial production.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/statistic-wizardry.htm

If the GDP methodology of 1980 were applied to today’s data, the 2004 second quarter’s annualized inflation-adjusted GDP growth of 3.0% would be roughly three percent lower (effectively netting to zero percent or below). In like manner, current annual CPI inflation is understated by about 2.7% against the pre-Clinton CPI methodology (would be about 5.7%), and the unemployment rate is understated by about seven percent against its original design and what many people would consider to be actual unemployment (would be about 12.5%)."

Question 2: What are the investment implications if Gross is right and the CPI is understated and GDP overstated? Gross himself lists the following:
[b] - Overvalued dollar? Foreigners would be less willing to hold US dollar assets if they knew the real growth numbers (or should I say “the real real growth numbers”?).

  • Bonds a lousy deal? TIPS and Treasuries are a worse deal than they seem if the real inflation rate is higher than the CPI. [/b]
  • Artificial benefit to the Government? Understating the CPI saves the Government money on index-linked benefits, and the value of its outstanding debt declines in real terms.

Then of course that could all be lies and fabrications by anti American fearmongers.

One must keep in mind that according to Zap that is all BS because what ought not to be definitely cannot be, especially not in the US.

Never ever.

The highlighted part nicely supports what I posted above, buying US debt is a bad, bad deal right now.

38

[quote]orion wrote:
…
One must keep in mind that according to Zap that is all BS because what ought not to be definitely cannot be, especially not in the US.

Never ever.[/quote]

According to you the US government is the one and only that uses cooked statistics. I suspect that most if not all governments do so and the US is probably more open than most, otherwise it would not be so easily accessible.

39

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…

Right now there is one government that definitely lies in its economic statistics and that is the US.

…

Give me a break.

they do.

Is it my problem that you do not know it?

And every other country is forthcoming and honest? You are full of shit.

No, but no civilized country does lie when it comes to inflation and production statistics like the US.

The unique thing about the US system is that it is like US politics. No one really outright lies, it is just so much BS that noone can really know what is true anymore.

At least I can trust the Chinese not to lie to themselves, the US government does exactly that.

You can easily verify that by googling “hedonic statistics” and “food gas CPI”.
[/quote]

Britain does the same thing with inflation statistics.

40

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…
One must keep in mind that according to Zap that is all BS because what ought not to be definitely cannot be, especially not in the US.

Never ever.

According to you the US government is the one and only that uses cooked statistics. I suspect that most if not all governments do so and the US is probably more open than most, otherwise it would not be so easily accessible.[/quote]

Must I post what I wrote… again?

Hell, why not:

See, no “one and only”, in fact I even posted that China most definitely lies.

The idea that European countries cook their books like the US is a pipe dream, but feel free to try to come up with some evidence for it.