T Nation

The Goal of HRT


#1

What do you guys feel the goal is of HRT? Is it consistently higher stable T-levels, or more fluctuating T-levels, with spikes although higher average than natural. I ask this because I'm curious what the most effective HRT therapy is, injection, oral, cream?

My understanding is injection causes a large spike in T levels immediately after the injection, and then fall as the week goes on until the next injection. This would seem to have some negative side-effects on natural testosterone production as well as conversion to estrogen and PSA levels. I'd expect this would also cause some mood swings. The upside is potentially great muscle growth in the immediate days following the injection as well as gauranteed delivery/uptake.

The alternative is something daily (or I guess you can split an injection to a daily dosage, but that would be alot of injecting). Assuming a decent absorbion, the idea would seem to elevate the T levels and then keep them there with little variation during the week. A doctor indicated that if taken during the morning, the half life is typically around 12 hours so natural T production can kick in at night. Of course, that may need to be revved up a bit if you already have some low T levels, but it would seem the more stable approach. The apparent downside to gel/creams/pills is having to take something every day, as well as never having supra-normal T levels. Creams/gels would be prefered instead of pills to avoid liver toxicity.


#2

Josh you need to lay down that powerlifting mag and go do some HEAVY SQUATS!Gosh darn Nancy Boy!


#3

I thought the goal of HRT was to elevate the levels back to normal?

Hey Jonesy, why don't you quit worrying about me, following me around, and constantly trying to talk to me and go squat yer damn self! You r teh ghey.


#4

Did you laugh after making the above statement, like you did the day you had sand in your clit?

works everytime!


#5

my goal for hrt is to get my levels back where they should be, so my lifting will show some results, I have been lifting seriously for 3 years (after a 10 year break) and still lacked progress do to low t levels so I am hoping therapy will help .


#6

I would be inclined to listen to your physician.

Matt, I haven't stopped laughing since having to spot you on that 135 pound quarter squat that you're still bragging about. Ha1 You r teh weak.


#7

That should of course be the goal. Some doctors are willing to go a bit above "normal" feeling that the definition of normal is a bit below optimum.

The question I guess really is what is the desired T-level profile? Is it relatively flat, as with a daily therapy, or is the desired profile to really have highs and lows, as with weekly injections? What are the benefits/drawbacks/risks of each?


#8

The primary purpose of HRT is to restore health. With low T, there is danger to your heart and increased likelihood of Alzheimers.

I've used Androgel for about 2 months now and it doesn't do much. Guess I'm less depressed and libido is up but not much else.

If your T is low (below about 250 ng/dl)and your free T is below 3%, go for the shots. Some people have good experience with Androgel however so try that if you must. Don't expect miracles.


#9

The problem with simply stating that we are trying to restore T levels to a healthy amount is wehn is it being measured. If it's soon after a shot, the levels would be very high, whereas if it's measured just prior to the next shot, the levels may be very low. Other forms of delivery (more frequent shots, creams, etc) may make the level more constant throughout the period.

My question is which is more benificial and lower side effects - higher levels during part of the week with lower levels towards the end, or a more constant level throughout the week?


#10

Yuh Jack a$$!


#11

I would go for the gel first. This should give you a steady state level, which would always be better, I would think. HH doesn't seem to get much from it, but I am doing well. Like many things, I am sure that personal variations are pronounced. I have noticed a HUGE increase in libido, and sleep much better and have more energy (from better sleep?). That is good enough for me.

HH - Why not move up to the shots?


#12

injection

your understanding is wrong...

for instance...if you were to get an injection of 100mg of enanthate once every week your test levels would be quite steady after a couple of weeks of HRT...


#13

I do 1cc 200 mg every 2 weeks, and seems to be working out great..


#14

Is 100cc the highest they will give you or are there some doctors out there that will go higher?? 500cc per week would be nice.


#15

The usual method is a shot every 2 weeks. By then, due to the half-life in the body, your T is low. It's a yo-yo effect. What I want to do is a shot per week with Cypionate, which has an ideal half-life.

My trouble is that my (now former) endocrinologist kept telling me to wait a 'little longer'. Well, it's been 2 months; I switched to another clinic and had a blood draw. Unfortunately, they are idiots (see my post in this section), so I'm trying a 3rd doctor in 3 weeks.

All I want to do get my test up to about 500 ng/dl. My range is 240-950. You'd be amazed how docs think you're a gear head for wanting to be the average. (Blank-blank doctors!)


#16

Thanks HH... this is kinda what I was getting at, trying to avoid the yo-yo effect as you put it. My doc is suggesting a cream-base first (not a gel) due to the ease of adminstration, although he didn't seem adverse to shots if it came down to it. We suspect (we'll know more after the blood work comes back) that I have fairly high estrodiol levels when compared to the low T levels that he's afraid of coversion to estrogen, gyno, etc by having the yo-yo. What is the half-life of cypionate, and what would you expect your T levels to be at the beginning and at the end of the week?


#17

DPH - thanks. Of course injections definitely "gets it in" more then cream/gel would ever.

What is the half life of the ethenate that you recommend? If it's on the order of 1 week, wouldn't the T levels be high initially, and dropped (to probably a bit higher then half) by the end of the week. While after a few weeks it may be at a good level by the end of the week, at the beginning you would still be getting a large spike.


#18

NO..YOU WILL NOT GET A LARGE SPIKE!

the half life of enanthate is ten days...

enanthate acts like a slow drip into your system...your T level wouldn't get high until a few weeks of 'overlap' (given that you take 100mg shot every seven days)....

also...gyno will not be a problem at this dosage...100mg per week is about 1/10th to 1/30 of what bodybuilders and powerlifter take in a week....