T Nation

The Girl Who Silenced the World

[quote]Wimpy wrote:

That’s interesting but if anything it only highlights my primary fear. I suppose that about two billion people in India and China are going to attempt to industrialize and “modernize” in the next fifty years or so. That’s not including the nearly 1 billion inhabitants of Africa that may want to follow. That could take an awful toll on the Earth. [/quote]

Why does it have to? As nations modernize, they actually do get cleaner. Mostly because they can afford it. China is already starting to take some efforts to reduce their pollution. Not to mention that they are going to have easier access to the more modern equipment available today, as opposed to the stuff we had to use 50 years ago.[quote]

It’s good that air has been clearing locally but even that article you linked admitted that the “brightening” has not occurred over India or China neither of which have likely hit their maximum level of pollution. There are also other issues to consider. For instance, the last I’ve heard, based on examination of large heterotrophs (primarily large whales) marine pollution is continuing to worsen (feel free to correct me on this, I was unable to find much data on it) thanks largely to waste water and other runoff contamination coming from Asia.[/quote]

Yes, the problem is currently Asia. But the finger is still being pointed squarely at America.

I have no problem with reduction of pollution. I want a clean environment. My problem is with the people who act like they care when they actually don’t. If things like Kyoto are so important, why were the countries you just mentioned exempt? The worst polluters on Earth, and they are not to be held to the same high standards as us.

There is one reason, and even the guy who started Greenpeace complained about it. He said that when socialism failed, all the socialists suddenly found a home in environmentalism, and are pushing the exact same issues, but only hidden under the guise of environmentalism.

We just had a whole bunch of people up in arms over a plan to spend 420 some million to protect a beetle. One person did the math and found it was $88,000 per beetle. Some of this stuff is just getting ridiculous.

I still find it funny that I changed to compact fluorescent lights a full year before Al Gore did.

The problem is you are only getting part of the story, or sometime complete lies. Ozone has a natural fluctuation that is ridiculously varied. I am talking about 50% changes in a day, due to natural causes.

When people talk about forests, they talk about “Virgin” forests. America has the only growing rain forest on Earth. Who is cutting down the rain forests? Mostly small farmers trying to gain more land for their animals to graze. Many knowing they are violating the laws of their country. (I believe there was a South American country that actually was trying to eliminate their forests.)

And where did you hear that the north pole was going to melt completely? It looks like we have entered a colling phase. The peak warming occurred in the 90’s. (When unpublished corrections were made.)

Actually they have worked on plans to terraform Mars. Won’t take too long to get there.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/mar/28/spaceexploration.sciencenews

Anyway, my problem is that the whole thing is being blown way out of proportion to reality.

Kind of like what happened with Three Mile Island. They had a problem, but the safety equipment worked perfectly. There was no disaster.

But the public was led to believe there was. And what is the result? Coal burning plants being built instead of much more efficient, and much cleaner nuke plants.

This should be interesting:

So environmentalists have probably caused more environmental damage then anyone else, simply by blocking nuke power plants.

Exactly the same with their blocking of the building of new oil refineries. New, more updated, cleaner facilities.

They are also currently blocking one company that jumped on the carbon credit bandwagon. The plan was to seed the ocean with iron in a low iron area. This has been proven to work, although they have not proven that enough of the carbon will fall to the ocean bottom.

Now why would environmentalists block what may be an extremely powerful way to eliminate CO2 from the atmosphere? The only reason I can think of is that they don’t actually want an easy solution. It prevents their actual “ulterior” motives.

I wouldn’t bet our future on terraforming Mars. I’d like to see it pursued simply because it’s a crazy fucking idea, but there are several issues to consider. The first is a timeline for terraforming and populating the planet. Conservative estimates I’ve seen range from 1200-2000 years. I’ve seen other scientists estimate that it could take thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years to create an atmosphere that could support life on the surface. Of course these timelines don’t mean anything special other than we have to live long enough on this planet to see it happen.

Gravity is another big obstacle because Martian gravity is only 1/3 of the Earths. The concern is that even if we create an atmosphere that the gravity will be too low to keep it intact. There are also fears that long-term exposure to low gravity will create serious health problems for humans. Some of the effects of low-gravity can be counteracted with exercise but there are unanswered questions as to what the effects of low-gravity are on fetal and infant development.Mars also has no magnetic poles, thus no significant magnetic field and also no equivalent to Earth’s Van Allen Belts. This is something that has serious implications in terms of protection from solar weather.

Asteroid impact would also be a concern since the planet is both located closer to the asteroid belt and has fewer impact protections. And there are also other little aspects of Mars that might cause one to speculate about a human future there - such as Phobos, one of the Martian moons, being in a decaying orbit towards the planet. We also haven’t precluded the possibility of life on Mars which, if encountered, could be catastrophic (I’m talking about microbes here, not little green men).

Like I said, I hope we pursue this idea just because I find it extremely fascinating and if nothing else we’re bound to make huge technological advances along the way. But don’t be surprised if this isn’t the salvation some people would like it to be.

Germs will kill most of us before we make the planet uninhabitable.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Berserkergang wrote:
I’m so sick of those UN bullshit pretending to be some kind of opened and democratic organization because they let some brainwashed kids make a speech…What a fucking farce!

The UN a democratic organization? Good one![/quote]

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I said pretending to be…

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
Sorry, couldn’t get past the first 60 seconds.[/quote]

You did better than me. I clicked the link and read the description: You must watch this becuase it made Rambo cry. That was enough for me.

[quote]Berserkergang wrote:
lixy wrote:
Berserkergang wrote:
I’m so sick of those UN bullshit pretending to be some kind of opened and democratic organization because they let some brainwashed kids make a speech…What a fucking farce!

The UN a democratic organization? Good one!

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I said pretending to be…

[/quote]

Stop being so sensitive. He was agreeing with you. I don’t think the UN evens pretends anymore though does it?

[quote]GCF wrote:
Berserkergang wrote:
lixy wrote:
Berserkergang wrote:
I’m so sick of those UN bullshit pretending to be some kind of opened and democratic organization because they let some brainwashed kids make a speech…What a fucking farce!

The UN a democratic organization? Good one!

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I said pretending to be…

Stop being so sensitive. He was agreeing with you. I don’t think the UN evens pretends anymore though does it?[/quote]

Nothing to do with being “so sensitive”, English is not my first language, so I guess I misinterpreted him. My bad!

[quote]GumsMagoo wrote:
That’s David Suzuki’s kid.

If you’re Canadian you’ll know who he is.[/quote]

Oh, Jesus…didn’t know I could hate that guy any more than I do.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
GumsMagoo wrote:
That’s David Suzuki’s kid.

If you’re Canadian you’ll know who he is.

Oh, Jesus…didn’t know I could hate that guy any more than I do.
[/quote]

I read his wikipedia bio, why do you not like him?

National Geographic

http://video.google.com/videosearch?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS241US241&q=global%20warming&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv#

ONe that makes you think

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6701771598116401622&q=global+warming&ei=JmFxSPO_PJP8rAKn7bSmDg

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Thomas Gabriel wrote:
GumsMagoo wrote:
That’s David Suzuki’s kid.

If you’re Canadian you’ll know who he is.

Oh, Jesus…didn’t know I could hate that guy any more than I do.

I read his wikipedia bio, why do you not like him?[/quote]

I’d be surprised if there was a reason. It’s not like it would be the first time somebody posted something in this forum without thinking.

[quote]Wimpy wrote:
I wouldn’t bet our future on terraforming Mars. I’d like to see it pursued simply because it’s a crazy fucking idea, but there are several issues to consider. The first is a timeline for terraforming and populating the planet. Conservative estimates I’ve seen range from 1200-2000 years. I’ve seen other scientists estimate that it could take thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years to create an atmosphere that could support life on the surface. Of course these timelines don’t mean anything special other than we have to live long enough on this planet to see it happen.[/quote]

Actually I have seen a full plan broken down into timelines. And yes a full terraform of a planet would take centuries, but people could be living there before a full terraform. (Is this getting off topic?) The biggest problem is with the idea of getting all the exploration done first.

Anyway the planet doesn’t actually need to be terraformed before people could live there. They just wouldn’t be able to go outside without a suit. If terraforming were to commence, then once the atmosphere had a high enough pressure, then people would be able to go out without a suit, but still need to breath with an oxygen tank, and protect themselves from ultraviolet light.

What would actually take millennia is the use of plants to convert CO2 into O2. And that is assuming that we will not be able to do that with some sort of technology, which could speed the process. (I have faith in Science.)

38% is more precise. Actually according to the American Museum of Natural History, Mars actually does have enough gravity to hold an atmosphere. The moon however does not.[quote]

There are also fears that long-term exposure to low gravity will create serious health problems for humans. Some of the effects of low-gravity can be counteracted with exercise but there are unanswered questions as to what the effects of low-gravity are on fetal and infant development.Mars also has no magnetic poles, thus no significant magnetic field and also no equivalent to Earth’s Van Allen Belts. This is something that has serious implications in terms of protection from solar weather. [/quote]

Man you sure are negative. Mars actually has mini-magnetospheres. This may be due to a large impact that apparently occurred around 180 million year ago.[quote]

Asteroid impact would also be a concern since the planet is both located closer to the asteroid belt and has fewer impact protections. And there are also other little aspects of Mars that might cause one to speculate about a human future there - such as Phobos, one of the Martian moons, being in a decaying orbit towards the planet. We also haven’t precluded the possibility of life on Mars which, if encountered, could be catastrophic (I’m talking about microbes here, not little green men). [/quote]

Why not? Face on Mars? ;^)[quote]

Like I said, I hope we pursue this idea just because I find it extremely fascinating and if nothing else we’re bound to make huge technological advances along the way. But don’t be surprised if this isn’t the salvation some people would like it to be. [/quote]

Salvation? No. Just another step along the way to us becoming a galactic race.

I just look at the advances we have made in the last 100 years. How can we even fathom the next 100?


Actually this one makes me think.

It is one of the USHCN stations used for measuring the surface global temperature. Unfortunately it has an air conditioner blowing its exhaust on it.


And here is one conveniently placed near a barrel for burning trash.

And exactly how close should these things be to chimneys?

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Actually this one makes me think.

It is one of the USHCN stations used for measuring the surface global temperature. Unfortunately it has an air conditioner blowing its exhaust on it.[/quote]

There are many that are exposed to heat like this.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Actually this one makes me think.

It is one of the USHCN stations used for measuring the surface global temperature. Unfortunately it has an air conditioner blowing its exhaust on it.[/quote]

Bahaha!