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"The Game Changers" Plant-Based Nutrition Movie. Thoughts?

“The game changer”

Thoughts anyone…?

The body is pretty adaptable. Eat only plant based stuff and train accordingly, you’ll get strong as fuck. Eat animal based protein and other dietary macronutrients, and train accordingly, you’ll get strong as fuck.

There’s plenty of athletes across the globe who are incredible despite what they eat. I can guarantee there’s gonna be a bunch of variables and questions that aren’t even touched on in that movie, that would make a more valid statement than, “Its because they’re on a plant based diet”.

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Neat.

I think we figured out that protein doesn’t have to come from meat, but you still need protein. The problem for me with plant based is that I like to eat food and feel full. Few foods do that better than meat.

I learned a long time ago that athletes (not bodybuilders) need 1.2 to 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. That’s 120 to 180 grams for a 220 lb person. That’s not near as much as we’ve been led to believe.

I think plant based is great, but you’re going to be drinking a lot of plant based protein powder. And make sure it’s not just rice or pea protein. You need a blend to make sure you’re getting a complete protein profile.

Can of worms: full or satiated? I can get physically full by sheer volume, but through some hijinks I’ll be able to fit whatever else isn’t the thing that made me physically full (I’m assuming that a lot of people have the same mechanism), i.e. have a huge protein and carb meal, feel stuffed beyond belief, wouldn’t even have a slice of bread if forced but nuts, or other fats will go down just fine.

What are your thoughts on the human body adapting to excess protein intake?

I know some sites offer ready-made blends and/or can evaluate your own blend for completeness but I don’t know how complex these computations are (if they take uptake into consideration for instance).

Fun challenge: meal plan a vegan day with no powders that gets you to 0.8g protein/lbs of BW.

OT1:
If cricket powder was at the same (or a lower) price point as whey I’d be all over it.

OT2:
It’s weird, I like the texture (mouth-feel) of a lot of vegan/vegetarian products. Like, tzay or oumph. I guess because it reminds me of halloumi.

Depends on the amount! I guess I’d better be specific. I think the term would be satiated - meaning I don’t get hungry again in 20 minutes.

When it comes to macros, we can use carbs and fats as fuel. Protein is not a fuel. The body can break down muscle and use it but it’s not a standalone fuel source. I think it has to be converted into some other stuff before it’s useful. If someone eats excess protein then it’s just not used. I’d guess it gets excreted as waste. Some research has shown that people eating large quantities of protein and higher calories maintained the same weight as the control group. And they showed a difference of around 1000 calories a day and I think the protein was like 400 grams compared to 200 grams. It appears that the thermic effect of protein took care of the caloric surplus.

The body wants to be efficient so it’s going to use whatever fuel is easiest to access. I think protein is last on the list so I’m not sure if the body adapts to anything in this scenario.

I think it’s common knowledge that vegan protein needs to be a combination of pea and rice or at least two different products. I’ve noticed a blend of types in the vegan proteins I’ve seen in person. They’re still not very popular in the supplement stores.

I think I could do it but I’d have to eat a lot of soy. I’m not convinced that soy is the devil like some would say, but I’m also not convinced that it’s not. I guess you can call me a follower, because, like most, I choose to avoid it.

My wife fries a lot of tofu in a skillet on the stove and it’s quite tasty. It has the texture off eggs and even looks like egg whites. I’ll eat it but it’s definitely not a daily or even weekly thing for me.

Any examples? They have to be life long plant eaters. None of this they have been vegan for 3 years.

All athletes vegans point too are either new to being vegan and/or on steroids.

I’m not knocking the vegan lifestyle. If that’s your thing, then great for you. But the dude who said he qualified for his third Olympics and set a new PR after turning vegan made me chuckle. It’s as if the previous years of training with meat had nothing to do with that accomplishment… or possibly a good training plan and coach. But, yeah, vegan!

I would venture to guess that most of the improvements mentioned in the trailer were due to eating veggies. Most Americans don’t get enough (or any), but if you go all plant based then you’re forced to eat them.

I’m sure you or I can google and find a plethora of examples. To the point where neither of us have to banter back and forth providing proof or whatever.

I said what I said under a general notion.

Hence why I said there’s a bunch of unaccounted for variables. Which would include what you said, and what JMaier said. You say that like I didn’t hint to that being a driving force for the majority of the success those athletes have.

Define “plant ‘based’” diet. Most of the volume and mass of food on your plate comes from plants? Most of your calories? Most of your protein sources?

Bill Pearl claimed that he had inflammatory issues the he believed were caused by meat, and that eliminating meat made them go away. That is possible, however plant proteins are mostly associated with inflammatory polypeptides designed to prevent animals from fully absorbing and utilizing them. Humans have found ways over thousands of years to detoxify plant proteins. Natural corn and beans are fatally toxic. Bread is low GI because it has inflammatory proteins that inflame gut cells and prevent absorption.

Anyway, there were a couple of major falsities promoted just in that short preview.

  1. The strong as an Ox quote. Oxen live on grass. They have a huge hind gut full of bacteria that turns grass fiber into SATURATED FAT! It is not entering their metabolic pathways until it is turned into saturated fat by the bacteria and passes into their bloodstreams, so Oxen, and virtually all large vegan mammals live, metabolically speaking on saturated fat. When we eat them, we eat the macro-molecules that evolution has taught their bodies to use to store nutrients.

  2. Cholesterol of 168! There is nothing innately healthy about having a cholesterol level of 168 versus say 230. You body uses cholesterol to heal inflammatory damage to blood vessels. If your cholesterol is pushed down to 168 because you are depriving it utterly of raw materials, you may be reducing your bodies natural drive to raise cholesterol to heal damage, OR you may have low testosterone as a result which basically means poor health. It is possible that people brought down their cholesterol because they were reducing inflammation by cutting certain animal products, but saturated fat is not one of those. Lots of red meat may be. Lots of pork and chicken fat that is loaded with Omega-6 (pro-infammatory fatty acids) or lots of processes meats could be. A problem with a vegan diet in America is that it tends to be higher in Omega-6 which is the main fatty acid in most plants and plant oils. Omega-6 not only causes inflammation of blood vessels, but also reduces the cholesterol levels needed to repair that damage before it gets too great.

The first issue with a vegan diet is to get Omega-6 levels low to prevent oxidative damage to blood vessels, and inflammation which is the job of Omega-6. ANY MOVIE THAT FOCUSES on getting cholesterol down from the 200s to under 170 is based on either ignorant or propaganda.

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What are you talking about? This is such a ridiculous condition, haha, but Clarence Kennedy is vegan, dunno about his whole life, but for quite some time now.

Perhaps not life long but, they should have built there strength/muscle on a vegan diet. How can you state that a vegan/plant based diet can build great strength and muscle but, all examples are of people who transitioned after the fact.

In bodybuilding people always bring up Bill Pearl but, he was 40 yrs old and lacto-ovo.

Clarence Kennedy has been vegan for about 3 years and most likely on… creatine.

I think it’s difficult to determine, to be honest. How many people at a very young age transition to a vegan diet, and of those people, how many of them are actively seeking strength? Vegan athletes tend to gravitate towards endurance/ultra endurance sports, and I believe it correlates with the values they generally ascribe to. If one can train the body to run 50-mile trail runs in 100+ degree heat, I would assume one can get strong. I don’t know, and I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just think it’s hard to make a proper control group in a study on the subject, ya know?

For once, I agree with @lucasmon. The video is trying too hard. It’s sensationalizing the vegan life.

My wife is vegan and I think it’s great if it works for people. I also love a good cheeseburger and ribeye steak. I think variety and balance are the keys to healthy living.

I had a home cooked vegetarian (I actually think it was vegan) dinner this week.

That means I’m a better person that all you suckers (Aside from times I didn’t eat, I think that was my first meat free dinner in 20 years)

I decided to take up the challenge myself, while excluding soy and powders. Note that I haven’t cooked these meals, so it’s hard to say how balanced they would be - nor did I run it through chronometer to detect any deficiencies but it’s just one day though so.

Also tried to keep away from processed stuff, but used one item (oat yoghurt) that is “processed”. I got higher than 0.8g of protein / lbs (minimal required) and slightly below 1g / lbs. How to diet and keep protein intake at 1.25 without powders or soy, I don’t know. Anyway, here goes (it’s a lot of food, and I’m counting the proteins offered up by the vegetables):

BF: 648 cals (37p/62.1c/28.8f grams)
Chickpeas, 1 container (280g)
Avocado 40g
Chia seeds 1tbsp
Asparagus 200g
Peanuts 25g

Lunch: 616 cals (59.5p/52.6c/19.4f)
Almonds, 25g
Lentils, 70g
Quorn 250g
Peas 120g
Brocolli 200g

Snack: 340 cals (18.9p/10.9c/22.1f)
Pumpkin seeds 25g
Sunflower seeds 15g
Oat yoghurt 200g

Dinner: 525 cals (27.1p/82.7c/5.9f)
Quinoa (cooked) 200g
Lentils 70g (that’s one container for the day)
Artichokes 200g
Kale 200g

Total: 2129 calories, 142.6p/208.3c/76.2f

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I see a lot of gastric distress there!

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Maybe. Certainly is a lot of food to eat, might help with staying satiated :wink:

Speak for yourself. My average meal is 8 oz of steamed veggies (224 grams), 6 oz of meat, and 8 oz of rice or potatoes.

And then I’m hungry in 90 minutes.

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Was it always like this, or did this happen when you leaned out? I found that when I was at my leanest, I wanted to eat every 2h. As I gain more fat, the spacing between meals increase. How many meals do you have per day?