T Nation

The Future of Palestine

Not pretty!

Wow, they sure are getting a lot of snow these past few years!

[quote]pookie wrote:
Wow, they sure are getting a lot of snow these past few years!
[/quote]

Good thing they got that wall to keep them warm.

[quote]lixy wrote:
pookie wrote:
Wow, they sure are getting a lot of snow these past few years!

Good thing they got that wall to keep them warm.[/quote]

And the fire from one of their dumbass suicide bombers.

[quote]dk44 wrote:
lixy wrote:
pookie wrote:
Wow, they sure are getting a lot of snow these past few years!

Good thing they got that wall to keep them warm.

And the fire from one of their dumbass suicide bombers. [/quote]

lixy doesn’t like the damper it has put on martyrdom operations.

Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.

What the Zionists did to the Palestinians was just plain wrong.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.[/quote]

I’m imagining a Jewish mother’s nagging, overprotective, manipulative, controlling, smothering, and overbearing* speech, but shouted loudly in guttural German.

We finally learn why you’re so unhinged.

* Thank you, wikipedia.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.

I’m imagining a Jewish mother’s nagging, overprotective, manipulative, controlling, smothering, and overbearing* speech, but shouted loudly in guttural German.

We finally learn why you’re so unhinged.

* Thank you, wikipedia.
[/quote]

She died when I was four years old.

Seems like the Israeli defended themselves into occupying other peoples territory.

Who knew?

What a fucking mess. Yeah that was a great idea on the British and Americans part. Hey let’s kick these people out who have been living here for the last 2000 years and set up this “magical” state that must exist according to the Bible. What a crock of shit. The Romans booted out the Jews for a reason.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Not pretty![/quote]

Look at the recent history of israel. They have actually evicted settlers from the palestinian territories. And it’s just pure stupidity to expect history and the evolution of a country to develop in a linear fashion which your pictures implies.

But when somebody continues to bomb you and doesn’t want to talk you have expect to get owned. So as much as I’m a proponent of a two-state solution, my sympathy for the palestinians continues to shrink.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.

What the Zionists did to the Palestinians was just plain wrong.[/quote]

You must mean the British.

[quote]Billy Whizz wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Not pretty!

Look at the recent history of israel. They have actually evicted settlers from the palestinian territories. And it’s just pure stupidity to expect history and the evolution of a country to develop in a linear fashion which your pictures implies.

But when somebody continues to bomb you and doesn’t want to talk you have expect to get owned. So as much as I’m a proponent of a two-state solution, my sympathy for the palestinians continues to shrink.
[/quote]

I don’t know that there will ever be peace. The Israelis offered to give back 95% of the disputed lands. Right or wrong, the Palestinans are never gonna get a better deal than that. I don’t think the Israelis will ever offer more than they did at the Camp David Summit. And the Palestinians seems unwilling to make any concessions or counteroffers.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Billy Whizz wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Not pretty!

Look at the recent history of israel. They have actually evicted settlers from the palestinian territories. And it’s just pure stupidity to expect history and the evolution of a country to develop in a linear fashion which your pictures implies.

But when somebody continues to bomb you and doesn’t want to talk you have expect to get owned. So as much as I’m a proponent of a two-state solution, my sympathy for the palestinians continues to shrink.

I don’t know that there will ever be peace. The Israelis offered to give back 95% of the disputed lands. Right or wrong, the Palestinans are never gonna get a better deal than that. I don’t think the Israelis will ever offer more than they did at the Camp David Summit. And the Palestinians seems unwilling to make any concessions or counteroffers.[/quote]

I agree.

I understand why the palestinians don’t though, they feel like the underdog and the revolutionary spirit has been imprinted in them by years of fighting the israelis.

Of course one can say in retrospect that the 1948 partition plan should have been accepted immediately, as Ben-Gurion did since he saw what would happen if they didn’t.
But a two-state solution is the only viable option. So the world, and israelis, just have to keep on working the palestinians too accept it.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.

What the Zionists did to the Palestinians was just plain wrong.[/quote]

Why do you keep bringing up your Jewish origins? What do they have to do with anything?

For the sake of intellectual honesty, perhaps you should post a map of Israel next to all of the Arab lands around it. Jordan, btw, is 80% Palestinian*.

*Palestinian is a term coined to obfuscate the true nature of the ‘Palestinians,’ who are actually left-over Arabs and Arabized Levantines left over from the first wave of Islamic jihad beginning after the death of Muhammad. Jews had been living in that area continuously since roughly 1000 BC, as the historical record confirms.

We could get into the dismal plight of such Jews under Islamic rule, but I Andrew Bostom’s latest book does the subject more-than-adequate justice.

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:
What a fucking mess. Yeah that was a great idea on the British and Americans part. Hey let’s kick these people out who have been living here for the last 2000 years and set up this “magical” state that must exist according to the Bible. What a crock of shit. The Romans booted out the Jews for a reason. [/quote]

And that reason was…what?
After the second rebellion, the Roman probably murdered 600,000–60% of the Jews of Judea-exiling and enslaving most of the remainder.
But what need would you have for history, when you have your own idiot’s comments to share?

And that reason was…what, Charlemagne?
To exterminate a people who were rebelling against foreign tyranny.
And no, the irony is not lost on me, but it may be lost on bigots like you.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.

What the Zionists did to the Palestinians was just plain wrong.

Why do you keep bringing up your Jewish origins? What do they have to do with anything?

For the sake of intellectual honesty, perhaps you should post a map of Israel next to all of the Arab lands around it. Jordan, btw, is 80% Palestinian*.

*Palestinian is a term coined to obfuscate the true nature of the ‘Palestinians,’ who are actually left-over Arabs and Arabized Levantines left over from the first wave of Islamic jihad beginning after the death of Muhammad. Jews had been living in that area continuously since roughly 1000 BC, as the historical record confirms.

We could get into the dismal plight of such Jews under Islamic rule, but I Andrew Bostom’s latest book does the subject more-than-adequate justice. [/quote]

HH cartoonish map matches the cartoonish thinking, if we call it that.

I agree with you on the purposeful obfuscation, PRCalDude. Until 1947, even the term “Palestinians” was as likely to be used by the British (and the english-language press), often derisively, to refer to the Jewish residents of the Mandate, in order to distinguish them from Arabs, Bedouins and town-dwellers alike.

(Others have justifiably commented that Palestinian national identity since 1890 is, to a large degree, a product of parallel Zionist national identity.)

The map itself is political propaganda: There were no “Palestinian Lands” under the Ottomans; and we all should know the sorry fate of the nation that the British provided for the Arabs. The Palestinians then were as much victims of other Arab nations, in particular, Syria and Jordan. Whatever Palestinian nation that might-have-been was not suffocated by Israel, alone or principally.

It is no accident that Arafat rejected Clinton and Ehud Barack’s proposals (for “95%” of the West Bank); contrived “history,” aided by violence, was on his side, of course.

give it to the Bedouins, they’re way cooler

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Most Jews have no connection with Israel wrt origins. My mother was German and Jewish, btw.

What the Zionists did to the Palestinians was just plain wrong.

Why do you keep bringing up your Jewish origins? What do they have to do with anything?

For the sake of intellectual honesty, perhaps you should post a map of Israel next to all of the Arab lands around it. Jordan, btw, is 80% Palestinian*.

*Palestinian is a term coined to obfuscate the true nature of the ‘Palestinians,’ who are actually left-over Arabs and Arabized Levantines left over from the first wave of Islamic jihad beginning after the death of Muhammad. Jews had been living in that area continuously since roughly 1000 BC, as the historical record confirms.

We could get into the dismal plight of such Jews under Islamic rule, but I Andrew Bostom’s latest book does the subject more-than-adequate justice. [/quote]

I mention my origins because I don’t want to be accused of anti-semitism. Its easy for folks here to make that leap and dismiss what’s said as bigotted. Look at Prof X and AlDurr.

Israel has no conection whatever with most Jews. It was created by Zionists. Hell, we’d all rather live in Miami anyway! ;>

I do find it interesting that when Hamas was firing rockets into Israeli-occupied land, not a peep from the MSM. Now that Israel is responding, the ‘world’ leaps to condemn. Bunch of hypocrits…

Here’s one thing I really don’t get. A large chunk of this land. Why oh why would Israel surrender any land which was taken in wars started by other nations?

Whether you think the creation of modern Israel was right or wrong, you can’t deny that Palestine and other Arab nations played a large role in creating the current predicament.