It’s obvious you don’t hate him. However, there does come a time for most people who’ve been in this pastime for over a decade or two to eventually come to the conclusion that what much of a lot of trainers write or do, don’t produce unique results! You think I post all of what I REALLY feel or want to say about popular authors and trainers?
Why do you think on other, far more inflammatory and trollish posters on other forums have no mercy in their criticism or ridicule (which I don’t condone) of some of the most beloved gurus? It’s not that they hate them, but they just don’t buy into their shit.
I could care less if the routine names represent bands or colors in a different language. He’s gone past the point of no return, and now 80% of his target population is confused, because they’re not as bright as you or I in regards to programming. The questions in his forum itself drove me to stop visiting.
Its a complete joke. People can make progress faster with much simpler methods. And no I’m not getting in the ‘simpler method’ debate. You know what I mean.
Having been a fan of black metal in the past, I know there was a band named Krypteia.
Anyway, I thought he named a program as such because it could be considered an edgy name considering what the institution of Krypteia in Sparta involved: young Spartans making their bones by roaming the countryside and assassinating helots to control their population size.
I agree, and I fucking love 5/3/1. As far as I’m concerned, it kind of went nuts after FSL, joker sets. The only other awesome thing is Training Maximally, which I think is kind of an Easter egg Jim hid in Beyond. All that leader/anchor stuff is just superfluous.
most of the stuff all of them do is based off old methods to be honest. The reason they repackage it (in my mind anyway) is for financial reasons (duh) and to make sure they don’t die. They do work, but without Wendler, Lilly, or Wesley Smith, all those methods would have been hidden from the general public. It really is the easiest way to get strong (Hepburn method aside).
I really hate the leader/anchor shit though. He scrapped all the stuff from the original to make a more confusing program to sell more shit. I love how he made the OG 5/3/1 and most of Beyond, but 5 books? for a training system that has been around for decades is kind of absurd.
Since its kinda being discussed, I’m running Triumvirate from the web site and was about to purchase one of the books. Would yall advise I get Beyond since I Like the simplicity?
I learned a lot from 5/3/1. It really helped me understand some important concepts, and how to use stuff I knew about, better.
-The idea of getting everything in; lifting, big weights/small weights conditioning, stretching/recovery, diet, I already knew about. But I always either went 100 miles an hour on stuff, or just neglected it for awhile. Doing enough, but not too much of the sort of important stuff to save energy for the really important stuff really helped me.
Going steady for awhile (5/3/1 for main lifts) and experimenting with what else I could handle taught me how much work to do, and still make progress. Even for other programs.
-I always liked working in 3 week waves, but I never really stacked them together very well. Thinking in 3 week chunks, and figuring out how to make each block “better,” (make the 5/3/1 main lifts go up) helped me grasp why I should or should not be making changes. This makes every other program or system run smoother.
-3 steps forward, 1 step back was good for me too. As a young stud, I went balls to the wall all the time. In my 30’s, this worked so bad it made me go backwards. Staying in the gain zone, using the training max and waving weights back let me get into the gym way more consistently.
It’s like high school. Once I stopped messing around and payed attention, I learned a lot. I was better prepared for the future. But I’m not in a super hurry to go back.
I went to a two day seminar in PA in 2005 Wendler put on for EFS. There were about fifteen or less attendees. It was a blast actually. It was when I was a wannabe powerlifter because I went through a phase in which I thought that I had to make my strength bones so that one day I could be a bodybuilder. This, thanks to decade-plus notion that one has to do that. Anyway, I enjoyed all the learning and it was awesome to sit down with Jim and some of other people over lunch on the first day. Jim didn’t tire of me asking a lot of questions.
So I kind of got hooked on keeping up with his books and bought all of them. I got 5/3/1 Forever in the mail almost two weeks ago, figuring I can maybe get reinvigorated for general fitness/strength training considering I am not currently hardcore bodybuilding and I mentally can’t get through it. Anchors, leads, pro’s, 5’s, First Set Last, Jokers… I actually have no idea WTF is going on. That doesn’t make it a bad book though. It might be great actually, but I was confused quickly!
With that said, I very much like what Jim has to say on some things, though some of them are not even training-related.
I mean, I understand what Wendler’s doing. He’s running a business.
But as @oldbeancam said, it’s turned gimmicky and overly complicated.
At the end of the day it’s sets, reps and methods, but that doesn’t earn profits. He’s certainly taken advantage of a tailwind created from his reputation. Nothing wrong with that either.
Right. Though I never quite got where the percentages and reps of 5/3/1 came from or why they are programmed as they are. I know some people who didn’t get the results they sought and simply went back to a double progression of lift a weight for a rep range and adding weight as time went on, or in the case of many linear powerlifting schemes just going from straight sets of 10 to 3 or less as time went on for the big lifts.
Just as an aside, this kind of goes in line with what I read about powerlifting in the late 19990s to early 2000s, some of the stuff being on this site and EFS. There was this notion that Westside was THE program to follow and on many occasions Louie and Dave would denounce linear periodization and more bodybuilding oriented programs, but then when I would look at the best benchers and powerlifters of the time or before, they did exactly what was being criticized: linear schemes for the big lifts, going from 8 to 10 reps down to a peak over months while taking some assistance stuff out and a basic bodybuilding training.
I took a look at Kirk Karwoski’s program and if one were to take out the scheme for the main lifts, it looked like a stereotypical bodybuilding program. The same goes for Ed Coan’s, Glen Chabot’s, David Waterman’s and Bill Carpenter’s routines.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that yes, I do agree that something has to be marketed in some way considering it’s not fancy to just say add weight and reps over time, even though that’s what everyone has been doing.
Of course I’m not a powerlifter but I used to like reading about it because the feats of these men were amazing. Plus Chabot, Waterman and Captain Kirk had bodybuilder-like physiques.
Of all the options in that book I’m basically doing the simplest one and honestly not sure I will ever try 95% of the programs in it. I like the idea of leader and anchor though and added that to my training.
Great post. Pretty much sums up generational changes in strength training methods. In its simplest form, 5/3/1 is a fad were currently experiencing.
I’ve tried several forms of 5/3/1 over the years, but absolutely hated the arbitrary percentages. I don’t even like the training max for me personally, but I understand why he markets it. People are not experienced enough to autoregulate their training, enter the training max, a way to dummy proof your intensity.
Prepare yourself…
Guy 1: Dude, what routine are you on?
Guy 2: 5/3/1 God is a Beast!!! Then I’m hitting up Krypetia on my leader. After that I’m changing my assistance (supplement???) To Spinal Tap blowing the volume up! Then I’m hitting anchor after my 7th week protocol consisting of 3/5/1 (huh, thought it was 5/3/1), with rep PRs and the…shhhhhhhh…Jokers! (Hold on, doesn’t Jim say not to use jokers?)…experienced guys use Jokers…but I thought he said it was the best thing since sliced bread when combined with the g-14 method of first set last.
Guy 2: So what do you do?
Guy 1: Usually lift to a top set of 3 or 5 or 8, then I’ll do some back off sets and some assistance.
I sometimes wonder if maybe there is something wrong with me that I have no issue understanding Jim Wendler. Maybe years of trying to crack the codex of Louie Simmons paid off.
