T Nation

The Flame-Free Confession Thread II


I agree with this, because this is what they did. BUT, you realize that everyone and their mother is going to make it look like those at the top of the USAPL are transphobic bigots because they don’t understand the underlying reasons BEHIND the ban.

Therefore, they should make a division for trans men/women to compete in, and make it an untested division; for the sake of uneducated Congressional Representatives not making PL look horrible.


Center Stage. Live album, 2 discs of insane chops and amazing sound quality.


@flappinit @dt79

Joe Robinson is another guy to check out for this style of playing. He’s pretty young so he should have a long career ahead of him. Haven’t listened to anything he’s put out in a few years, but back when I stumbled across him in like '10/'11 he was doing some pretty crazy stuff.


I laughed. Heartily.


But Yeah they are just following the IPF lead.
Problem is a Tran divisions opens a whole can of worms . Doing so will definitely challenges their stance on being Drug Free. There is no way to be able to dictate if this female tranny is taking their Estrogen or if a Male tranny is taking a reasonable amount of male hormone in the first place for their allotted divisions.

My question is how many Transgender gender individuals actually compete?
Even if the USAPL didnt have the ban…the IPF still does.


The USAPL is going to be litigated to non-existence if they don’t apologize sooner rather than later. The USAPL may have to revoke their own stance on being drug-free and make a trans division (even though I’d argue that a minimal amount of transgender men and women compete at all) just for the sake of saving the federation.

And they will come after the IPF next, because they are ignorant and they have the power to do so. Do you think a Muslim congresswoman knows ANYTHING about powerlifting whatsoever? Of course she doesn’t, and yet here she is emailing the USAPL telling them that trans women and women are on the same, completely equal playing field.

I’m not even sure why they would come after powerlifting…the sport usually repels those who think everyone is entitled to whatever.


for what? Because they have the back bone not to bend their own established rules?

actually that would kill the Fed even quicker. Usapl gets allot of its membership from lifters who like the idea of being in a Drug free organization along with its association with the IPF.

who will? They are a international organization and are not bound by any legislation a congresswoman wants to whip up.


Yes. Because their backbone will be their death here in the overly politically correct US.

I would argue that if the Fed goes out of business, it would be put to rest more soundly (with no chance of ever having anybody compete at its meets, simply because the federation wouldn’t be around to host them) than if it simply caved and made an untested Trans division (FYI, I was advocating that only this division be untested because of the biological nature of the competitors). Hormone replacement therapy to transition from MTF or FTM is completely different than steroid usage to benefit in competition against other drug-free lifters.


They will come after the branch of the IPF that exists here in the US because they can.




I have to appreciate the comedy of attempting to make an all inclusive sport that no one wants to play.


This is the USAPL.


I know, but @bulldog9899 mentioned the IPF still having the ban that the USAPL adopted. However, who is to say that they won’t try to kill that branch of the IPF existing here in the states? The USAPL was only the target of the media’s ire because JayCee Cooper got banned from competing in that particular fed. If his publicity involved his being banned from the IPF (which he already is, but he never tried compete there), the IPF would be the target of ire.


This is my point exactly: just make the trans division an untested division, get your handful of competitors, and move on unscathed.


Men on TRT are also on a completely equal playing field to men with naturally high testosterone, that doesn’t allow them to play. Same with women in women’s competition.

Organizations are totally within their rights to discriminate on particular matters. Under other circumstances, they can and do discriminate in ways which would be illegal but courts allow it.

This is not unusual, even if its illegal. The USAPL would not be a lone wolf, bucking the law like an untamed animal.

It’s particularly strange in this case as the USAPL offers no special advantage that a trans athlete couldn’t obtain elsewhere. We’re not talking about excluding someone and restraining their trade, their only path to the top of the sport, recognition of world records, losing sponsorship or anything else. These options are all still available to trans athletes.

Somewhere along the line, our grownups forgot that the world is not black and white and started to behave like 5 year olds.

It’s the age of the idiot and unfortunately all the idiots, as always seems to happen, are righteous and believe they are on the side of good.


Honestly, I’ve always said that, for all these people that want to make powerlifting all inclusive, they only want to make it all inclusive so long as everyone does powerlifting the way THEY want to do it.

The way you make powerlifting all inclusive is simple; make it totally open. Use all the drugs and all the gear you want. Wanna compete raw? Do it. Drug free? Knock yourself out. 3 grams of test a week and 2 squats suits on top of each other? Have fun!

Everyone gets to play.


Not if you have ever taken the drugs required by a trans athlete as part of their therapy. Then you have a lifetime ban and have to take your ball elsewhere.


I think you may have misunderstood the hypothetical I was presenting.


This is all true. However, because transgender people can in fact say that they are being discriminated against (because being trans is DEPENDENT on hormone therapy/surgery), the Democratic House will win this case, thereby accomplishing something that hurts the very people they claim to protect - women, because trans women are just like regular women in every way, shape, and form. Right? :face_with_monocle:

This would kill the sport more quickly than litigation, because the only people we’d see competing would be the Matt Krocs and Dave Hoffs of today - a handful of people would be competing for that top spot, while literally everybody else would be consigned to the bottom of the pack. Who really wants to fight for 65th place at a meet?

Competition exists to attract potential competitors. If I was to compete in a race against Olympic level sprinters, I would not compete because there would be no point in me competing.

Case in point: the trans community are the only people asking for inclusivity, and therefore there is no need to make the sport completely open. Making the trans men and womens’ respective divisions open is another question entirely.


The people that say powerlifting is about competing against yourself :slight_smile:

The sport reached critical mass silliness a long while ago. People haven’t cared about winning meets in a LONG while. It’s been about setting the record squat in the 181lb left handed Methodist 2 years clean of tren category.