T Nation

The Fat Fast Diet

I am wanting to attempt to perform the fat fast diet, but I am confused as to exactly what goes into the shake you drink.

Low carb protein and flax oil.

I just chug 1 1/3 tbsp flax oil straight and then take the whey protein separately w. water. Another one that is good is the Atkins Cappucino and Choc. shakes, they only have 1 g. of usable carbs and actually taste pretty good. They also have a blend of the different proteins as well as glutamine peptides, although it doesn’t specify how much.

sounds good, teddykgb, but one thing I dislike about Atkins products is that they tend to load soy proteins into the mix. Can you check the label and let us know if this product does this as well? If not, great! If so, can someone else suggest the best tasting low-carb chocolate protein you know of?

The cheapest source for protein is the protein factory. Get a 60% caseinate/40% CFM Whey mix. Absolutely do NOT get it flavored with vanilla. Chocolate is the best in my opinion and don’t forget to have it sweetened. Mixing sweeteners tastes better. 20 lbs ran me about $140. Flax oil is relatively inexpensive and can be ordered there as well. It may seem like too much money for a month of supplements but consider that it is all that you are buying for food the entire month. As for fiber, I haven’t found any amount that would suffice for regulating the pipes. I’ve gone as much as 6 days without dumping waste but your time spent urinating will make up for it. Seems to me that most of what you’re consuming, if not all, will be absorbed and very little is left for waste anyway. So why would the fiber help? It makes you feel constipated without food in your digestive tract. A couple points I would like to mention:

  1. If you are going to do this diet for more than two weeks and plan on keeping muscle, anabolics are a must. Research has shown that the weight lost by people on PSMF diets lose fat AND muscle in about a 1:1 ratio. Androsol works fairly well and combining it with trenbolone or testosterone would give more room for error in the diet.

  2. After two weeks your T3 conversion and TSH production are extremely low. This is why people can’t seem to lose more or as much fat after this period. This is probably the source of Brocks disappointment. Supplementing with T3 would help drastically and would be even more reason to use anabolics.

  3. Cravings usually get the best of people on this diet. Try using Crystal Light and sugar-free jello to curb the sweet cravings. It adds only a negligible amount of carbs. A small salad every now and then isn’t bad, be sure to check the carbs in the dressing you’re using though. Flax oil and vinegar work well for this with a little sesame seed oil.

I feel like I’m forgetting something. Oh well, this should get you by and is probably more information than you wanted to know. I hope it helped.

I have a container of the Atk. choc shake mix in front of me right now, and yes there is some soy, but the casein, milk protein concentrate, egg albumin are listed first, plus there is also whey isolate as well. Can’t be in any appreciable amounts-the bake mix is a different story. I’ve been using Simply Protein from EAS as my whey source, not because I am a Bill Phillips lover, but EAS was on sale at the health food store I worked at (today was last day) so I got it dirt cheap combined with my employee discount. I’ve heard CytoPro tastes and mixes good but it’s overpriced and I haven’t tried it myself. We sell a ton of Optimum and Pro Performance’s Choc. Whey (most cost effective ones), and if Biotest ever comes out w. a straight whey formula I imagine this would be a good one too. I really like Pro Blend 55 (Alpine Vanilla) as far as taste goes too, that’s about the best one I’ve tried so far. Never tried Protein Factory but I may have to.

Sugar-free Jello is a godsend, especially w. a teeny bit of whipped cream, but some people find that excess citric acid (one of the ingredients in Jello) keep them out of ketosis. Chris says that near ketosis is just as good, and it probably is, but for those of you that are ketosis-obsessed (like I used to be), you should be aware of this. I think it is in Crystal Light too but I consume both anyway. I really like 4 slices melted string cheese w. a smidge of light spaghetti sauce. For those of you who are following Brock’s recommendations to the letter this would be too many carbs for Fat Fast but would fit in nicely on T-Dawg. Also your favorite whey protein in 5-6 tbsp. of heavy whipping cream-almost passes for pudding, but be sure to throw in a packet of Splenda, Equal or Stevia. I’ve been getting killer results following Brock’s Fat Fast Sunday thru Friday late afternoon, German Body Comp Workouts on M-W-F, and a strict carb-up from Friday evening until Saturday bedtime. Since I’m not using Androsol/Nandrosol I find the carb-up helps considerably plus it breaks the monotony of flax and whey protein. I never thought I would be able to do nothing but flax and whey shakes but I’ve actually gotten used to it, and my workouts are awesome which I would have to attribute to using flax as my exclusive fat source. MD6 sure doesn’t hurt the process either.

Oh yeah, the salads. I don’t even use dressing on mine. I just do a cup of spinach, three leaves romaine lettuce and three leaves green leaf lettuce, 2 tbsp. red wine vinegar and lemon juice (this is great for reducing the glycemic level-up to 30 %), and 2 tsp. olive oil. You could also use flax seeds, better on the salad than the oil but watch the carbs.

Citric acid should not shift you out of ketosis. This is not to say that it may not have a negative affect on ketone metabolism though. I consume about 1 1/2 gallons of crystal light a day on a PSMF or slightly modified version. By the way, I would stay clear of any products containing soy protein it does not matter how little it contains. Though I don’t think it is as bad as T-mag considers it, 100g of soy equaling 1mg of estradiol, it is still not a good idea. The estrogenic substances contained in soy are not nearly as potent at activating the receptors as estradiol, but as with as with any hormone there is a negative feedback with exogenous consumption. It also really doesn’t matter what protein you use either on the Fat Fast. Go with what protein tastes best. Another helpful tip, any meal you consume, whether you are in ketosis or not, will cause an insulin response. Insulin inhibits lipolysis and is therefore a negative hormone to have for fat loss. You can get around this by eating 3 times per day spread evenly. This will keep you in a fasted state for a longer period and keep the serum blood concentration of insulin low.

John U> where did you get the figure of a 1:1 loss rate on this diet? I have never heard that, quite the opposite. I have read many times that keto diets spare more muscle than normal low calorie diets.

I think he’s speaking of a PSMF, which is different from a standard keto diet in that the calorie levels are much lower. And even with the other keto diets if you don’t do a periodic carb-up or use some type of anabolic agent (juice or andro based), you will likely end up losing more muscle in the long run. Me, I function quite well on ketogenic diets but I have to do a carb-up once a week.

The 1:1 ratio of weight loss is common knowledge to people in the medical community who advocate this diet. You should realize that doctors could really care less if you lose muscle along with fat. The whole purpose of the diet is to drop “weight” in individuals who are morbidly obese while still providing the essentials for survival. It could be for health concerns or that they are going to undergo surgery soon. While it is true that ketones have somewhat of a protein sparing effect, ketones can only be produced at a slow rate. On a diet with such a low caloric intake such as this ketones are used up very fast and protein conversion to glucose is the only other option. Ketogenic diets are also known to disrupt T4 to T3 conversion as well as suppressing TSH release, testosterone production, and generally all anabolic hormones except for growth hormone. Catabolic hormone are increased tremendously, glucagon, cortisol, etc. If you combine this already catabolic environment with extremely low caloric consumption, you will definitely lose “weight,” but at least half as muscle. So if going longer than two weeks it is advisable to supplement thyroid hormone and testosterone or derivative thereof.

You guys that keep responding seem to have a vast wealth of knowledge or a tremendous gift in the art of b.s. Either way, I want to master this diet and get my physique in order once and for all. I have a couple questions: 1. How does ‘equal’ or ‘sweet n low’ affect this diet or any ketogenic diet? 2. If I was to ‘carb up’ every couple weeks or once a week, what would I carb up on and how do I factor in the other foods on those carb days? 3. I am required to perform physical fitness tests every so often but I know when they are, so what would be your recommendations for altering this diet, if that’s what is needed, a few days out from the test? Thanks guys!

Ok guys, one more question: How do I determine the number of calories to consume on this diet? I know that my protein needs to be about 1.5-2g of bodyweight, but what if that exceeds or falls short of the recommended caloric intake amount? Do I just make up the deficit or take away from the protein with healthy fats? Thanks guys!

Sorry, but I have ONE more question for this half hour of today… On this diet, do I train any differently at the gym? I mean I obviously am NOT going to be able to GAIN any muscle while on this diet and my only hope is to maintain, so, should I stick to a ‘mass producing’ workout with lower reps and a coupld extra sets (generally) or should I go to a higher rep count workout? Oh yeah, I lied, I do have one more question: on this diet will my recovery time change, given that my workouts don’t? Thanks a million guys!

Some people seem to be sensitive to aspartame (Equal) as far as ketosis goes, but most probably do okay. Splenda is my fave for sweeteners personally. As far as the rest of your questions, some will be hard to answer w/o more specifics, but I’ll give it a shot. Are you talking about doing Fat Fast or a regular cyclic ketogenic diet. Fat Fast has no carb-up, plus the recommended cals are lower on it. Refer to the original Fat Fast article for calorie recommendations. If you are doing a cyclic keto diet, you should carb-up once a week, and there’s no hard and fast rule for carbing, you’ll have to tailor it to your needs. Some do it for 48 hrs, others (myself included) only do 24 hrs. Some eat whatever they want a la the T-Dawg plan or Anabolic diet, whereas others follow a much stricter approach as far as amounts and types of carbs. Keep in mind that excess protein on this type of plan can convert to glucose thus making ketosis difficult if not impossible, but like Chris said, you don’t necessarily have to be in full ketosis to get benefits. You do NOT want to do a mass building approach on this type of diet; w/o the carbs and the glycogen your recovery will be much lower so adjust your training accordingly. I really like doing German Body Comp 3x/week for the workouts (refer to the Delta 1250 or Bowlful of Jelly articles for this workout).

Thanks teddykgb, I am planning on the Fat Fast diet and not any other form of a ketogenic diet. As for the aspartame, I guess I just wanted to know if it would keep me out of ketosis or not… perhaps that’s what you meant about it affecting people differently. How long should I go before carbing up again? Is 4 weeks too long? Is 4 months too long? I know that last one was a bit extreme, but I’m trying to get a good idea for planning purposes. I know I need to be in the right mindset to do this and stick to it so I’m mentally preparing now. Do I really need MD6 or an Andro supplement? And what about the physical fitness tests I mentioned? Thanks for you imput and time dedicated to ‘the cause’. If anyone else has answers for my previous questions, don’t hesitate to speak right up! Thanks T-MEN!

Protein whey and milk goes in the drink I would think.
What else could you possibly add for a keto diet?

Ok guys, jj brought up a question that I had been thinking about also. How is recovery affected on the fat fast? I lift early in the morning before work and usually am sore by that evening and maybe a little sore the next morning. Usually, though, I can’t feel it anymore within 48 hours. I started the fat fast last week and after doing chest on Monday morning, I was still a little sore Thursday morning. Is this normal for this type of diet? What do you guys do to speed recovery? Thanks!

Yes, I was talking about the ketosis factor with aspartame. Unless you’re consuming it by the truckload, I doubt it’ll pose any problems but it does for some people. If so, try Splenda (sucralose). How much fat are you trying to lose, and where is your bodyfat at now? If you are subject to physical fitness testing you should do a periodic carb-up. On traditional cyclic keto diets they are done after the workout on Friday (start low-carb Sunday evening, no carbs all the way thur Fri. afternoon, then carb for 24 hrs. or maybe less if you’re eating uncontrollably). I have yet to try the Androsol/Nandrosol but many people seem to be in favor of them. If you’re doing the Fat Fast variation, I would either get these and MD6 for the duration of your program, or Fat Fast from Sunday to Friday late afternoon and carb-up for 24 hrs. MD6 (or any ephedra-based thermogenic for that matter) will make low carb dieting much easier. If you know when your testing will be done and they aren’t always on the same day you could do a targeted ketogenic diet like T-Dawg, consuming pre-workout carbs on your testing day and after too. Don’t go overboard here though if fat loss is your main goal.