T Nation

The Eye of Newt


So the Republicans are running another old, white, senile, warmongering geezer who is a self-professed Middle-East historian. A Zionist tool who claims that the Palestinians were "invented". If any group in the Middle-East were "invented" it would be the Israelis,lol.


Your words disagree with him, but your image backs up what he said...


How do you figure that? There was no "Israel" in that picture, just Jewish settlements in Palestine.


Missing historical context: the population of Jews in Israel boomed in the post-war years as Jews displaced by WWII flooded in. So each successive year those settlements had massive gains in population. You can't really blame them for not wanting to live in Germany anymore or in France who's government sold them out. Not to mention the Soviet Union had grabbed a lot of territory where Jews had lived and it wasn't exactly accepting of the Jewish community.

Then you had Arab states across the middle-east expelling their Jewish populations, which funneled them into Israel as well.

I mean, historically it was a total catastrafuck and any one who wants to blame just one side is missing something. The conditions of 1948 were decades in the making and were a perfect storm for causing conflict in the region.

So maybe I'm missing the point. If the Jews had been there historically there would have been no-one to displace. That's the whole problem. You had a massive displaced population the the western nations were like "oh, take this land!" I mean the UN, granted it was in its infancy, pretty much just gave up and declared free for all.


Whose mandate is that image labeled under?


You know there was actually some serious discussion about putting the Jewish state in Alaska for a while. Imagine that.


First picture misleading. Above is the British Mandate

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." - Balfour Declaration - reneged.

Jordan is THE Palestinian state BTW. Of course the Arabs were offered a second Palestinian state in 1947(UN Partition of Palestine Plan) but rejected it to side with the invading armies.

Why Israel can't accept 1967 "borders:"

And anyone confused about what comprises Eretz Yisrael should consult Joshua chapter one BTW.

EDIT: And Ezekiel 47:13-21


It would be of interest to see the same map labeled as "Arab Settlements 1947"

When the White Paper was issued in 1922, there were 80,000 Jews and 500,000 Arabs in the British Mandate (including Transjordan). BY the 1936 census, the Jewish population had risen to 380,000 (30,000 in 1936 alone). But the Arab population had also risen as dramatically, to 1.25 million, attracted by the economic activity of the Jewish yishuv.

Refugees "found a shelter and a sanctuary there, so that this land, not largely productive of the means of life, became a fountain of charity and hospitality to people in distress. Land reclamation and cultivation and great electrical enterprises progressed. Trade made notable progress, and not only did the Jewish population increase, but the Arab population, dwelling in the areas colonized and enriched by the Jews, also increased in almost equal numbers. The Jews multiplied six-fold and the Arabs developed 500,000, thus showing that both races gained a marked advantage from the Zionist policy which we pursued and which we were developing over this period."
(Churchill, defending the policies under the first White Paper, in debate, House of Commons, Aug 1, 1946)

80% of the land in Israel's 1948 borders was purchased.

Numbers can be argued, but it was only Churchill's government which had collected them. Other narratives are important, but Newt is following this narrative, a narrative which is continued in the nakhba, wherein Arab armies denied the Palestinian Arabs the rights of a separate people in a separate state. Instead, they "invented" a narrative of permanent refugee status, generation after generation, which is legal no where else.


No, not a state, a refuge.

See how Roosevelt quashed it.

Imagine that.


That's what I thought. The implication of the map is that the white area is where Arabs live. And most people who see it will infer that.


Who does not know that the first law of historical writing is the truth.



I'm with you method mad. Get rid of the crackers and put a real man in charge. These honkey geriatrics don't know what they're doing.


Method_Man, like Clip11, Rohnyn and others, is a Headhunter troll. Leave him alone


Rohnyn is a troll? I thought he was just crazy. I guess there's not a lot of difference.


How can you be shure that they all are the creations of headhunter?


If they are so over the top racist/anti-U.S./pro Islamic/biased to the point of retardation.....you can assume a Headhunter sock puppet.


They all write in the same way, create deliberatley inflammatory and extreme statements to start trolling, then when the argument is dying down add more fuel to the fire. All of them start or enter discussions with a series of words cobbled together designed to create a Pavlovian response (see above with all the 'zionist' talk from method_man which always raises the hackles round here)


So you assume there is only one person posting who is "over the top racist/anti-U.S./pro Islamic/biased to the point of retardation" on the entire forum?

That seems logical....



I was disappointed to see Cain drop out of the race too...

Having said that I have to disagree with you on the rest. Learn history, the Palestinians were invented. The Zionist movement that lead to Jews returning to their ancient homeland got under way in the 1880's. At that time the land was an almost completely uninhabited wasteland.

As the Zionists numbers increased and they created an economy more workers were needed to support the economic growth. That was when the Ottoman empire stepped in and put a limit on the number of Jews it would allow into their homeland. So they were forced to bring in Arabs from all over the middle east by the Ottoman's to support the growing economy.

That is why most of the so called Palestinians have family names that can be traced back to villages all over the middle east that are outside of the area they call Palestine.

So Newt is right. The Palestinians are an invented people who were forced upon the Jews by the Ottoman's at the beginning of the twentieth century. They had only been on that land a generation before the influx of Jews at the end of world war two. And the reason for them being there was to keep the Jews from forming an independent state on their ancestral homeland which their ancestors had been driven off of by force.


Reading comprehension fail LIFTY.....

He said above "how can you be sure that they are ALL (implying more than one) Headhunter"

I replied with "If THEY (implying more than one) are so over the top racist/anti-U.S./pro Islamic/biased to the point of retardation"