The End of Women’s Powerlifting?

Forget all the letters of the alphabet. The world is composed of predators, and prey.

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Do you think it was ethically right for @RT_Nomad to call transgender people that word?

The worst outcome is hatred. We need less hatred in the world, wouldn’t you agree?

I don’t disagree. Above, I said that

I didn’t mention other physiological differences like frame and hand size, which are also obviously relevant to powerlifting and swimming.

Including that term, in my mind, adds nothing to the comment other than making it needlessly pointed and villainizing an already-marginalized group that, at the end of the day, is just trying to participate in sports that they enjoy. I highly doubt that any substantial amount of trans people are competing in bad faith.

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a “female” division, and an “open” division

This is probably what most sports will eventually do. It’s probably the best solution, but still leads to a clusterfuck. You’ll have cismen, transmen and transwomen all in the same division.

There’s a video of a retired Janae Kroc still being able to casually DB row 300lbs. And this is her at nearly 50, as someone who focuses more on BJJ now, and after estrogen therapy which destroyed her strength levels. All of the other powerlifters in the video failed to row the DB I think, and they were all cismen who were probably roided to the gills. Imagine having Janae Kroc or someone similar against a transman :rofl:

I highly doubt that any substantial amount of trans people are competing in bad faith.

I’m a gigantic geek and most of the fandoms I’m a part of are full of trans people. Most are perfectly normal and awesome outside the gender dysphoria they suffer. The internet is absolutely the worst way to judge any group, since the best way to go viral is by posting the most unhinged, crazy stuff possible lol.

That said, there is this bizarre idea that has spread in certain circles during the past decade that there are no physical differences between men and women besides reproduction. Some online spaces are full of this idea. These people, many of whom are cis, think the average girl is as strong/explosive as the average guy, and they’re usually the first to argue that transwomen should compete against ciswomen.

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Agreed - I really don’t think there is much of a good solution so long as both equity and inclusion are being prioritized. And there’s tons of crazy Kroc videos floating around, lol. Her Instagram has a few recent-ish ones of her reverse-band benching 400+ pounds. Which is, like you said, much less than the numbers she was moving pre-transition, but still would blow the competition out of the water.

Same for me, lol. I’m located in Alabama for the time being, and even here I still come into contact with them pretty much constantly as a result of my hobbies and mutual friends. And obviously I can’t generalize the whole group, but by and large they tend to be really nice people. It’s hard to go through what they go through and not emerge as a very compassionate person.

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Or, they want to play sports for the exact same reasons anyone else would. Occam’s razor seems to apply pretty clearly here.

So does my style of facetiously twisting things around to a completely unintended meaning. :+1:

Oh, my bad. Went a mile over my head lol.

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I am sorry if the slur offended your sensibilities. You could look at the situation from my perspective.

Consider a person who has an unfair advantage and wants to compete where they have the best chance. They consciously use their advantage in the competition against the lessers, or they don’t care that they do have that advantage, and just want to compete. They just don’t care that they are hurting others. That person has earned a slur label.

Now let’s look at something that offends almost every single person on this forum. There is a “natural” bodybuilding contest being held. A person on AAS has decided that he would compete against the natural competitors. He might be doing this because he wants to take advantage of the situation, or he just might not care one way or the other. He just wants to compete. He doesn’t care who is hurt. So the “roider” enters the contest. He earned the slur “roider”

How do your sensibilities feel about that? You want to have it both ways?
A cheater is a cheater. You are willfully ignorant to believe this isn’t cheating.

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Agreed - I really don’t think there is much of a good solution so long as both equity and inclusion are being prioritized

I mean, sports are inherently unfair due to genetics, and even our best solutions like weight classes aren’t perfect. I’m mostly into MMA, where the same weight class can have Francis Ngannou and a pudgy 250lbs guy haha. So I’m okay with the inherent unfairness in an open division as long as the ciswomen are protected, because anything else would be too unfair to them.

but by and large they tend to be really nice people. It’s hard to go through what they go through and not emerge as a very compassionate person.

They’re everywhere in the fiction writing and art communities, which is where I mostly chat with them.

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In this context of dudes competing in women’s powerlifting? I see no ethical issue with his choice of words. If anything, it is being generous.

I agree, but how does allowing people with penises and testicles to compete against women in the sport of powerlifting benefit anyone, anywhere?

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So why condone cheating?
The hurt people could react less than positive.

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I agree, but how does allowing people with penises and testicles to compete against women in the sport of powerlifting benefit anyone, anywhere?

Not even joking, but I really want to meet these trans people who think it’s fair for a biological man and woman to compete against each other. All the trans people I’ve talked to agree that they should be seperated.

If anything, it’s young white women who I’ve mostly seen argue that there are no athletic differences between men and women haha.

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It seems they have talked their way into the mess that they are in. How can they complain it’s not fair, when they say they are the same ability?

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For the third time this thread - I don’t think they should compete together. It’s obviously unfair. there are multiple better solutions. I’ve already posited my favorite above.

Calling someone a slur denigrates other people to whom the slur applies, even if they’re not the direct target. This is why it would be seen as racist to call an african-american murderer the n-word, in spite of what he’s done. This is, to me, a concept which is intuitive to the point of being self-evident.

Edit: I’d probably go so far as to say that since a slur is something that comes out of a societal power differential, “roider” isn’t a slur. It’s just an insult. That’s a point pretty much extraneous to the rest of the topic though.

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It doesn’t benefit anyone at all in my opinion, I think it’s unfair.

But, why do you feel that this situation give you a green light to use an offensive slur?

Why do you feel it is okay to even use that in any context?

I see that as rendering all of the females training time and effort up to that point as null and void.

There are women in the past few years that have worked thousands of hours for years on end, only to have their chance at winning during the pinnacle of their athletic careers taken away by a trans.

That, if anything, would foster More hate.

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I agree.

I didn’t use the slur, I just liked a post with the slur and then defended the poster’s use of the slur in the context of the thread.

Even though it wasn’t a word I used, I think it is fine to use whatever words you want to get your point across. I think it is okay to do that because the number of people harmed by the word tranny being written in this thread is precisely zero.

If you disagree and find yourself a victim of harm by reading this word, that’s your problem, not ours.

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So you’re going to defend @RT_Nomad bigotry and think it’s okay to use slurs in an argument.

Very alarming dude, yikes……and you wonder why stuff like CRT exists.

Thanks for bringing me back into the conversation. Am I a bigot in all things? (As if you know me) I am a bigot against people born a male competing in women sports. A 100%

People who willfully harm others who are defenseless are not immune to degrading labeling. It is hard to believe that the word is more harmful then their action.
So much for “action speaks louder than words”. Not in this sissy generation. Words speak louder than action.

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