T Nation

The Downfall of T-Nation

“hi, my name is ____, im 5’10”+ and weigh 130-150lbs, and i want to get big, but not fat…"

Just an example of something that we’ve all seen running rampant on this site lately.

Let’s all take a moment now to scroll up to the very top of the page. Read it. T-Nation, Bodybuilding’s Think Tank. Now, we have more than bodybuilders on this site, and I think that’s fine. Perhaps we have taken on a more liberal use of the word “bodybuilding” here…BUILDING one’s BODY to be stronger, faster, more agile, bigger…etc. Ok. That’s fine.

Even in this very liberal use of the word “bodybuilding” have we here expanded that to cover “building one’s body to be SMALLER”? The answer: we haven’t. It doesn’t even make sense. That would be body-destructing, quite the opposite of bodybuilding.

So ok, let’s have some patience with these poor, misguided souls. Let’s slap them around a little (my gosh, only if it’s absolutely necessary though), get those ridiculous ideas out of their heads, and set them on the right path. I am all for doing that.

Now here’s where things start to take a turn. These poor, misguided souls post their pics, jumping over the footboard of their beds, or skipping rope, or something of that nature, and people rip into them. “Eat”, “Come back when you weight 100lbs more than you do”, “Put down that fucking jumprope, nancy-boy”, etc., etc.

Now, how many of us were told that a surface was hot as a child, and touched it anyway? I know I did. Maybe I was a stupid kid. Maybe I figured that “hot” was relative to the person saying that the surface was hot, and I just HAD to know how hot “hot” was. So I touched that hot surface and got burned.

So we draw the parallel between touching that hot surface, even though we had been warned. Sure enough, we got burned, just as the 6’0", 138lb frail-ass poster will get burned. They have been formally warned. It’s right at the top of the physique and performance photos page.

So, ok, that’s a basic overview of the “skinny boys posting pics” problem.

There are also females posting pics. Which is obviously fine. While this site seems to be dominated by males, we certainly do not frown upon females posting. However, there’s an important thing to notice here. This wonderful site has afforded us both a Physique and Performance forum and a T-VIXEN SORORITY forum. You can’t miss it, it’s not more than an inch or two underneath the “Physique and Performance” forum link, depending on the size of your screen, of course.

I don’t doubt there are wizards frequenting this site that have 72" computer screens, therefore making that distance closer to a foot.

Now, regarding the female posts, there are some things to be said:
-It is not very likely that we will see very many posts of females that are “bulking” in the sense that we’ve come to think of it. Meaning, it is unlikely that we will see very many female “bulk bellies”.

-Females do not post pictures on this site as often as males do. It is not a rule, it is not necessarily a preference, but it is a fact. Did I go through the archives and tally the male posts and female posts, and then compare the results of my experiment with the stated, expected results of my hypothesis? No, I didn’t, but you may if you’d like.

Please report back if you conclude that I am wrong in this regard, otherwise your silence will be taken as agreement.

Now, when females post in the “T-Vixen Sorority”, they get a great amount of support from other females, and sometimes men that poke their heads in. It is very unusual for men to poke their heads in to the “T-Vixen Sorority” to say “I’d Hit it”, even though this is a phrase that has been used to often, that it has been accepted as a norm of T-Nation.

At this point, it is a badge of approval. In some obvious circumstances, it is used in jest. From what I have seen, neither is taken to be offensive by regular T-Nation readers.

Now let’s look at something interesting. Let’s look at the “T-Vixen Sorority”. Specifically the word “vixen”.

Vixen- noun; a female fox. “She’s a fox”= she’s hot, she’s smokin’, she’s SEXY. These phrases are used interchangeably, because they mean the same thing. So there you have, women being objectified as “foxes” and “sexy” things to look at, written right into the infrastructure of T-Nation.

Contrast this with “Sex and the Male Animal”. Males- sex is an animalistic need for them, that everyone acknowledges, understands, and accepts. In all honesty, it is for females too, but when they act like men do about it, they are labelled as being promiscuous or, dare I say it, even slutty. That is, for the most part, the WORLD’s view.

Now, why would a female not post her pics in the “T-Vixen Sorority”…the place that has been set aside, especially for them? Could it be that they are fully aware that these sex crazed, male animals are lurking outside of the “T-Vixen Sorority”, and perhaps they want a little attention from these beasts?

Could it be possible that although she would not welcome men shouting and grabbing at her on the street, that she may be basking in the attention that she is getting on the internet? Certainly, I do not intend on implying that this is the norm, but it is certainly a possibility.

Why is it that people post pictures of themselves on the internet in the first place? Are they not looking for attention? I would expect a lot of people to deny their own vanity and use the excuse that they are just looking for objective opinions and honest criticism.

Well…do they not know REAL (as in, not INTERNET) people that could give them these opinions and honest criticism? Perhaps they are too bashful to ask for opinions and criticism from people that they know. Ok, fine. I can see how the internet would come in there.

Now, if they are going to post a picture, or multiple pictures, of themselves- showing their face, on the internet, couldn’t one conclude that they obviously felt safe and comfortable enough with the internet to do so?

Ok, now that we’ve established that, why is it that others feel it is necessary to go around trying to police the responses posted to someone else’s picture? And why is it that it’s always the older crowd that comes out and has a problem when some “young punk, dipshit” responds aggresively to an attractive female’s pictures?

Tell me, where are all of these protectors of virginity and all that is holy when everyone is ripping on some skinny guy? Or when a female occasionally jumps in with an “I’d Hit it” on a males pic post? I guess what it comes down to is that they want to come in and play the chivalrous Knight and carry the lady away on their steed.

Zzzzz. I’m sorry, what?

Could you break that down to a bullet point with three words or less?

Thanks.

I tried to read that whole thing, I really did. But damn, I got lost, dizzy, passed out and hit my head on the side of my desk.

I did come up with a great idea for time travel though.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Zzzzz. I’m sorry, what?

Could you break that down to a bullet point with three words or less?

Thanks.[/quote]

sex.

meat.

muscle.

Relax guys, I think Dez didn’t follow directions and downed two Spike Shooters concurrently.

D

I’m pretty sure “T-Nation” is a company trying to make money. They promote good products and have great information. I doubt getting new customers interested in bodybuilding will hurt it.

Dez, you’re a lot smarter than you look mate! Good on ya!

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
Dez, you’re a lot smarter than you look mate! Good on ya![/quote]

ha! i didnt even realize it was that long

[quote]Ren wrote:
sex.

meat.

muscle.
[/quote]

Well, damn, that sounds pretty good… as long as the sex is “opposite”… where do I sign up and who do I write the check out to?

FRAT

I really don’t know why you care about the skinny guys. I figured out that I had to eat and lift hard before I even knew what T-Nation was. I found that out because I was actually LOOKING and TRYING and not COMPLETELY FUCKING DELUSIONAL about myself.

I saw something in there about the girls…yeah nobody rips on girls, probably because many are famous for being really self-conscious about their body and some go into breakdowns/crazy emotional rampages when called out.

heehee this is funny treed

[quote]vroom wrote:
Zzzzz. I’m sorry, what?

Could you break that down to a bullet point with three words or less?

Thanks.[/quote]

I refused to read all that and skipped to this post which I can read before I turn my 87th birthday.

I agree with vroom. Can we have a few bullets, and some highlighted words? How about some bold type?

In response to the skinny guys saying “I want to be 220 lb of pure muscle without getting to fat” Well…the problem is T-Nation, as well as their forums, do not show people bulking. I’ve never ever seen the big buys on a bulk belly period (with the exception Markus Ruhl, but I saw his video “Made in Germany”).

Occasionally, I’ll see a Before/After picture that shows a guy on a bulk belly, or dare I say, “fat” on the before picture. On the after picture, that person looks really muscular and/or ripped. A great example is the post “All Powerlifters are Fatties!”

Now, to argue against the “You need to be fat in order to bulk”. When the big boys said that you need to eat lots, they meant clean foods. Not M&Ms, not Snicker bars, and most certainly not grandma’s home-baked chooclate Oreo pie! Even fast food is much better than these delicuous treats.

Another thing to argue about, is a lot of people asking somewhere along the lines of “How do I get BIG?!?!?” It’s funny on how people define “BIG”. A lot of high school girls define “BIG” as Brad Pitt, etc (thank God that they see him as skinny in their later years). To get big, it’s absolutely simple. In fact, it’s to simple for most people and they run before they walk!

How to get big:

  • Eat lots of clean food. Vegetables is great, especially raw vegetables right before slamming down a whey protein shake to help the already-slow-digesting-shake into a even-slower-digesting-shake.

  • Workout consistantly, and focus in the gym. Don’t bring your cell phone, laptop, etc. The only electronic you may bring is your MP3 player/CD Playerand that’s only if you have Slayer, Pantera, etc.

  • A gym friend is fine as long as you guys follow the rules. No excessive talking (only motivational word such as “My sister was benching the same yesterday!” etc.) Please please PLEASE do not bring a group of friends and start talking with which chick you’d bang but wouldn’t bang you back. The point of this step and the last step is to FOCUS.

  • Change up your routine constantly. “Should I do full body or split body?” BOTH! I’ve made great gains on full body (in terms of hypertrophy) as well as split. The key is to do both and to change up constantly.

  • Stop thinking that you need to be “sore” after a workout or the day later. Only time you should be sore is if it’s the first time you’ve created stress on your muscles. A complete newbie. After that, you may even be counter-productive with gaining muscle hypertrophy!

  • Don’t go to a fast food joint for some “quick calories” instead, drink some whole milk (don’t forget those squats either). If you’re lactose intolerant or not a fan of the cow’s liquid. Then you’re an exception and McDonalds is fine (just don’t overdo it).

A lot of people will say, “Wow! I already know this you fucking retard.” The more power to you, but a lot of these kids constantly think about miconutrients, staple workout plans, etc. I’m no “expert” and by all means I’m not “big” but I’ve always known that I’ve made progress. In two-three years of time I will still not be ready for BB competition. Oh yeah, that’s another thing. PATIENCE.

For those lazy readers:
Eat lots of clean food, stfu and lift the iron. Change up your routine to “shock” your system. This shit takes time.

We should start posting before/after pics of ourselves on the bulk and after the bulk phases. Nate Green had a good before/after pic with him being a skinny kid into a kid who had some meat on him (sorry Nate, you’re not a kid anymore but I use the word a lot). The bulk/after the bulk photos will be REAL motivation to start bulking and not worriyng to get “to fat”.

Also for the kids who DO worry about getting fat because they want women’s attention. A man’s confidence/personality goes a shitload further than looks. Doesn’t matter wether you have a hairy ass, a small bulk belly, or small nuts (kind of took this from Nip/Tuck I know…)but it is true) you’ll still get in the sack with her for having a good personality and great confidence. :wink:

Bla bla bla. Wake up and realize that a majority of the people in this world don’t have whatever motivating factors that effect you have in your quest to be hyooooge.

Guys want to look good naked to get hot chicks and fuck them. Its that simple. Guess what type of men 99 percent of the women in this world want to fuck? The guy in the first paragraph your mocking that most men want to look like. Underwear models. Tyler Durden. I can go on and on here.

Me, Im not concerned with looking like an underwear model. Nor am I concerned with looking hyooge. I am about performance, having fun and feeling better. Everyone has there own goals, respect them and you will get the same in return.

Deal with it big guy. All of what is happening is that T-Nation is gaining popularity and regular people are joining in. Yes, its a sharp double edged sword. I think its probably a good thing in the long run.

I’ve shoulded added this to my post, I had to go really quick for some dinner though. I think it’s great that T-Naitonis gaining popularity, and I do realize that not everyone wants to get “hayooooge”. However, being 165-170 at 5’10’’ is NOT huge. A lot of people argue about T-Nation being a “Bodybuildering’s Think-Tank”.

Afterall, it does say just that at the top. You know what happened to Men’s Health, Flex, etc. when they catered to those model wannabe people? They turned into shit. Complete shit. T-Nation not only provides me articles for free, but they do it that caters towards people who DO want to get huge. Who DO want to make themselves physically bigger and better.

I wasn’t ripping on the skinny kids, I was saying that you shouldn’t have to worry about being fat. Bulk till you’ve reached your goal(s) then cut. “You wouldn’t drive slower if the place was closer.” I forgot which T-Nation reader has said this, but his/her analogy was well put. So again, just eat lots, lift hard, then cut. Don’t worry about looks when you try to get bigger. Worry about your looks whenyou’re cutting. It’ll make life a lot easier on yourself.

[quote]daniel d wrote:
You know what happened to Men’s Health, Flex, etc. when they catered to those model wannabe people? They turned into shit. Complete shit. [/quote]

People can argue all they want to…but this statement is nothing but truth.

As far as women posting their pics and getting the “i’d hit it” response…it should be taken with a grain of salt.

The internet gentlemen (superheroes) that come valiantly to their rescue…I mean give me a break. People aren’t stupid. Anybody that has spent any time on an internet forum knows that if they post their pic, they will either get flamed or congratulated (rarely somewhere in-between), and for those who have been blessed with good looks, they will get some “I’d hit it” responses…responses which may be at times lewd, but which can be easily decoded as compliments when it really comes down to it.

As far as those who try to defend the “hapless female victims”…

I don’t think throwing in an “I’d hit it” is out of line…those who post their picture know what they are getting themselves into, and defending their honor is not necessary. It would be different if you were at a bar and you saw a woman getting groped…but thats not the case on an internet forum. Please don’t act like it is.

Unless you are a forum moderator…put a lid on your friday night citizen arrests.

Skinny kids should STFU and eat.

P.S. I am not a dick, but I play one on the Interweb.

[quote]Jimfound wrote:
I don’t think throwing in an “I’d hit it” is out of line…those who post their picture know what they are getting themselves into, and defending their honor is not necessary. It would be different if you were at a bar and you saw a woman getting groped…but thats not the case on an internet forum. Please don’t act like it is.[/quote]

I think it is completely out of line. I think if you don’t have the balls to say it to say it in person - you should be called out for the rude motherfucking coward you are on the internet.

It’s a little thing called respect. Seems the fuckwads coming up today never learned the trait - and have replaced it with classless bullshit cat calls.

Just because a girl posts a photo does not give you the right to tell her you want to fuck her. I highly doubt you would have the balls to tell a girl that at a club - but because of how tough the internet allows you to be, you eill say it here.

I have no respect for gutless fucks like you. Not that you would even know what the word respect means.

More internet warrior bullshit.

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
“hi, my name is ____, im 5’10”+ and weigh 130-150lbs, and i want to get big, but not fat…"

Just an example of something that we’ve all seen running rampant on this site lately.

Let’s all take a moment now to scroll up to the very top of the page. Read it. T-Nation, Bodybuilding’s Think Tank. Now, we have more than bodybuilders on this site, and I think that’s fine. Perhaps we have taken on a more liberal use of the word “bodybuilding” here…BUILDING one’s BODY to be stronger, faster, more agile, bigger…etc. Ok. That’s fine.

Even in this very liberal use of the word “bodybuilding” have we here expanded that to cover “building one’s body to be SMALLER”? The answer: we haven’t. It doesn’t even make sense. That would be body-destructing, quite the opposite of bodybuilding.

So ok, let’s have some patience with these poor, misguided souls. Let’s slap them around a little (my gosh, only if it’s absolutely necessary though), get those ridiculous ideas out of their heads, and set them on the right path. I am all for doing that.

Now here’s where things start to take a turn. These poor, misguided souls post their pics, jumping over the footboard of their beds, or skipping rope, or something of that nature, and people rip into them. “Eat”, “Come back when you weight 100lbs more than you do”, “Put down that fucking jumprope, nancy-boy”, etc., etc.

Now, how many of us were told that a surface was hot as a child, and touched it anyway? I know I did. Maybe I was a stupid kid. Maybe I figured that “hot” was relative to the person saying that the surface was hot, and I just HAD to know how hot “hot” was. So I touched that hot surface and got burned.

So we draw the parallel between touching that hot surface, even though we had been warned. Sure enough, we got burned, just as the 6’0", 138lb frail-ass poster will get burned. They have been formally warned. It’s right at the top of the physique and performance photos page.

So, ok, that’s a basic overview of the “skinny boys posting pics” problem.

There are also females posting pics. Which is obviously fine. While this site seems to be dominated by males, we certainly do not frown upon females posting. However, there’s an important thing to notice here. This wonderful site has afforded us both a Physique and Performance forum and a T-VIXEN SORORITY forum. You can’t miss it, it’s not more than an inch or two underneath the “Physique and Performance” forum link, depending on the size of your screen, of course.

I don’t doubt there are wizards frequenting this site that have 72" computer screens, therefore making that distance closer to a foot.

Now, regarding the female posts, there are some things to be said:
-It is not very likely that we will see very many posts of females that are “bulking” in the sense that we’ve come to think of it. Meaning, it is unlikely that we will see very many female “bulk bellies”.

-Females do not post pictures on this site as often as males do. It is not a rule, it is not necessarily a preference, but it is a fact. Did I go through the archives and tally the male posts and female posts, and then compare the results of my experiment with the stated, expected results of my hypothesis? No, I didn’t, but you may if you’d like.

Please report back if you conclude that I am wrong in this regard, otherwise your silence will be taken as agreement.

Now, when females post in the “T-Vixen Sorority”, they get a great amount of support from other females, and sometimes men that poke their heads in. It is very unusual for men to poke their heads in to the “T-Vixen Sorority” to say “I’d Hit it”, even though this is a phrase that has been used to often, that it has been accepted as a norm of T-Nation.

At this point, it is a badge of approval. In some obvious circumstances, it is used in jest. From what I have seen, neither is taken to be offensive by regular T-Nation readers.

Now let’s look at something interesting. Let’s look at the “T-Vixen Sorority”. Specifically the word “vixen”.

Vixen- noun; a female fox. “She’s a fox”= she’s hot, she’s smokin’, she’s SEXY. These phrases are used interchangeably, because they mean the same thing. So there you have, women being objectified as “foxes” and “sexy” things to look at, written right into the infrastructure of T-Nation.

Contrast this with “Sex and the Male Animal”. Males- sex is an animalistic need for them, that everyone acknowledges, understands, and accepts. In all honesty, it is for females too, but when they act like men do about it, they are labelled as being promiscuous or, dare I say it, even slutty. That is, for the most part, the WORLD’s view.

Now, why would a female not post her pics in the “T-Vixen Sorority”…the place that has been set aside, especially for them? Could it be that they are fully aware that these sex crazed, male animals are lurking outside of the “T-Vixen Sorority”, and perhaps they want a little attention from these beasts?

Could it be possible that although she would not welcome men shouting and grabbing at her on the street, that she may be basking in the attention that she is getting on the internet? Certainly, I do not intend on implying that this is the norm, but it is certainly a possibility.

Why is it that people post pictures of themselves on the internet in the first place? Are they not looking for attention? I would expect a lot of people to deny their own vanity and use the excuse that they are just looking for objective opinions and honest criticism.

Well…do they not know REAL (as in, not INTERNET) people that could give them these opinions and honest criticism? Perhaps they are too bashful to ask for opinions and criticism from people that they know. Ok, fine. I can see how the internet would come in there.

Now, if they are going to post a picture, or multiple pictures, of themselves- showing their face, on the internet, couldn’t one conclude that they obviously felt safe and comfortable enough with the internet to do so?

Ok, now that we’ve established that, why is it that others feel it is necessary to go around trying to police the responses posted to someone else’s picture? And why is it that it’s always the older crowd that comes out and has a problem when some “young punk, dipshit” responds aggresively to an attractive female’s pictures?

Tell me, where are all of these protectors of virginity and all that is holy when everyone is ripping on some skinny guy? Or when a female occasionally jumps in with an “I’d Hit it” on a males pic post? I guess what it comes down to is that they want to come in and play the chivalrous Knight and carry the lady away on their steed. [/quote]

Shouldn’t you at least be paying your own rent before you grow nuts half as big as you think yours are?

I mean really - a mommy’s boy ranting over someone calling them out for being a fucking tool?

Get over it scooter-boy. You will have a hard time out posting me, out gaining me, or out training me - but you will never out wit me. Hell - you would have trouble outwitting an automatic garage door opener.

What has T-Nation come to that kids like this are what’s joining up nowadays? Is BB.com purging it’s rolls?