T Nation

The Doctor Meets the Bioethicist


#1

And, discuss.


#2

‘I have a degree’ means very little. Plus his type of logic never changes. Now humans are just as valuable as animals?!

Ration health care? Is that from our current leader and his vision which won him a Noble Peace Prize?? Sure does sound like it ; )


#3

I think one thing is babies are not killed , maybe with the exception of partial birth abortions

Euthanasia IMO is ethical and would be very debatable .

IMO the rationing of health care is done TODAY by Big Insurance companies , I think we have to quit spending all the money at the end of a persons life who has good medical coverage


#4

Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible.


#5

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think one thing is babies are not killed , maybe with the exception of partial birth abortions
[/quote]

Wait…what?


#6

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think one thing is babies are not killed , maybe with the exception of partial birth abortions
[/quote]

Wait…what?[/quote]

This kind of incomprehensible drivel is the reason that pittbulll is the only member of T-Nation I have ever put on ignore. Looks like I haven’t been missing much.


#7

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work


#8

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think one thing is babies are not killed , maybe with the exception of partial birth abortions
[/quote]

Wait…what?[/quote]

This kind of incomprehensible drivel is the reason that pittbulll is the only member of T-Nation I have ever put on ignore. Looks like I haven’t been missing much. [/quote]

Good job ignoring me


#9

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work[/quote]

Poor comparison, teacher, cops and firefighters are public employees, completely funded by taxes.

But on the school note, yes I don’t agree with public schools. I don’t agree with property owners being forced to burden the load, I don’t agree with government control of the schools, dissolvement of parental rights, there are so many issues with the public school system.

Now a better comparison would be a mechanic for your car, or a vet for your pet. Redistribution of wealth is violation of individual rights. And providing services at someone else expense is redistribution of wealth.


#10

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work[/quote]

Poor comparison, teacher, cops and firefighters are public employees, completely funded by taxes.

But on the school note, yes I don’t agree with public schools. I don’t agree with property owners being forced to burden the load, I don’t agree with government control of the schools, dissolvement of parental rights, there are so many issues with the public school system.

Now a better comparison would be a mechanic for your car, or a vet for your pet. Redistribution of wealth is violation of individual rights. And providing services at someone else expense is redistribution of wealth.

[/quote]

Why are certain services (teacher, cops and firefighters) performed by public employees and cmpletely funded by taxes? What sets these services apart from, say, a mechanic or vet?


#11

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work[/quote]

Poor comparison, teacher, cops and firefighters are public employees, completely funded by taxes.

But on the school note, yes I don’t agree with public schools. I don’t agree with property owners being forced to burden the load, I don’t agree with government control of the schools, dissolvement of parental rights, there are so many issues with the public school system.

Now a better comparison would be a mechanic for your car, or a vet for your pet. Redistribution of wealth is violation of individual rights. And providing services at someone else expense is redistribution of wealth.

[/quote]

Why are certain services (teacher, cops and firefighters) performed by public employees and cmpletely funded by taxes? What sets these services apart from, say, a mechanic or vet?[/quote]

Because most of these employees are unionized and funnel back money to the parties ?

See TSA for further reference.


#12

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work[/quote]

Poor comparison, teacher, cops and firefighters are public employees, completely funded by taxes.

But on the school note, yes I don’t agree with public schools. I don’t agree with property owners being forced to burden the load, I don’t agree with government control of the schools, dissolvement of parental rights, there are so many issues with the public school system.

Now a better comparison would be a mechanic for your car, or a vet for your pet. Redistribution of wealth is violation of individual rights. And providing services at someone else expense is redistribution of wealth.

[/quote]

Amen!


#13

this trash shown in the video was extremely pervasive in my undergrad - and they did not have their champion peter singer at that time.

ill never forget the day i said i thought it was reasonable to kill a dog in order to save a human in a hypothetical discussion. This smelly 98 pound hippy scorned and called me a “specie-ist” (akin to a racist but in terms of animals). I made a remark that if he felt that way he should go and have mutually beneficial intimate relations with various barn yard animals. Much to my amazement, several years later, peter singer came to a similar conclusion!


#14

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work[/quote]

Poor comparison, teacher, cops and firefighters are public employees, completely funded by taxes.

But on the school note, yes I don’t agree with public schools. I don’t agree with property owners being forced to burden the load, I don’t agree with government control of the schools, dissolvement of parental rights, there are so many issues with the public school system.

Now a better comparison would be a mechanic for your car, or a vet for your pet. Redistribution of wealth is violation of individual rights. And providing services at someone else expense is redistribution of wealth.

[/quote]

Amen![/quote]

Hallelujah, praise the day we can keep medicine from the sick and let the poor die in the streets because they dont have money to give us.

Where do I sign up for this church, exactly?


#15

Providing everyone with health care isn’t “redistribution of wealth”, but thanks for another right wing sound bite, abpt.

Its pretty easy to see that it is unethical to refuse certain services to people based on an inability to pay. Firefighters services are among these. Education is another. As well as police. And emergency medical attention.

I don’t see how it makes sense to say “We shouldn’t let a persons house burn down just because they can’t afford to pay for the services of a firefighter. We shouldn’t let a person be robbed just because they don’t have the money to pay a cop for the service of protecting them. BUT, if a person has a disease, and we have the medicine and/or means to cure it, we should let them suffer and die if they can’t afford the treatment(s).”

Its really pretty inhuman.


#16

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Healthcare, like every other service, should be available to anyone who can afford it.

Why should discriminate against the productive and force them to pay for everyone else healthcare.

All these bigots discriminating against people who work hard to get insurance or be able to pay their bills, it’s horrible. [/quote]

I agree. Emergency medical services, as well, should be restricted to “those who can afford it”, as well as firefighters. Why should hard working people be forced to pay for everyone else to have the security of knowing their house won’t be left to burn down?

Oh, and public schools - thats the worst! Only those who can afford it should have their children educated. Why should the hard working be punished through school taxes?

And police, too! Where do these poor people get off thinking a cop should “serve and protect” them - they aren’t paying for shit! How fucking dare they?

note: no matter how many times you try to redefine the word ‘bigot’ out of existence, it wont work[/quote]

Poor comparison, teacher, cops and firefighters are public employees, completely funded by taxes.

But on the school note, yes I don’t agree with public schools. I don’t agree with property owners being forced to burden the load, I don’t agree with government control of the schools, dissolvement of parental rights, there are so many issues with the public school system.

Now a better comparison would be a mechanic for your car, or a vet for your pet. Redistribution of wealth is violation of individual rights. And providing services at someone else expense is redistribution of wealth.

[/quote]

Amen![/quote]

Hallelujah, praise the day we can keep medicine from the sick and let the poor die in the streets because they dont have money to give us.

Where do I sign up for this church, exactly?[/quote]

Pretty much any church would do, I hear they do wonders when it comes to schools and hospitals.

Then again, that would take your time, your money, your committment, maybe your church which simply takes it from someone else and has shitty services delivered by monopolies is easier on your time and wallet.


#17

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Providing everyone with health care isn’t “redistribution of wealth”, but thanks for another right wing sound bite, abpt.
[/quote]

Yes it is.

Also, servitude is also inhumane and your model requires it.


#18

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Providing everyone with health care isn’t “redistribution of wealth”, but thanks for another right wing sound bite, abpt.
[/quote]

Yes it is.

Also, servitude is also inhumane and your model requires it.

[/quote]

So socialized law enforcement is redistribution of wealth as well, then? What right does a person who cannot afford to pay the cops have to call and report crime, and expect the matter to be investigated? Is that not a service being provided to them at no cost?


#19

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Providing everyone with health care isn’t “redistribution of wealth”, but thanks for another right wing sound bite, abpt.
[/quote]

Yes it is.

Also, servitude is also inhumane and your model requires it.

[/quote]

So socialized law enforcement is redistribution of wealth as well, then? What right does a person who cannot afford to pay the cops have to call and report crime, and expect the matter to be investigated? Is that not a service being provided to them at no cost?[/quote]

Well it most certainly is a redistribution of wealth.

A necessary evil if you will, but to excuse completely unnecessary evils with the few necessary ones is highly questionable.

The funny thing is though that if you get Medicare and get cancer you would actually better off not having any insurance at all, i.e. people are forced to pay up so that other people get so shitty treatment that they would be better off not having received any treatment at all.

Awesome, would definitely recommend.


#20

Amen![/quote]

Hallelujah, praise the day we can keep medicine from the sick and let the poor die in the streets because they dont have money to give us.

Where do I sign up for this church, exactly?[/quote]

Thats not the point. No one is currently keeping the medicine from the sick are they? Emergency medical treatment and the free availability of it is vastly different than free medical treatment for everybody. Sorry if you eat like shit and choose to eat how you want with no regards for your risk of heart disease and diabetes I don’t want my tax dollars subsidizing your free medicine so you can live how you want regardless of consequence. I have busted my ass to get the income I have now, please tell me again why my contributions to organizations that feed, shelter and nurse people isn’t adequate and why I HAVE to pay for YOUR healthcare?

Furthermore I don’t believe in the current medical paradigm we have as a nation anyway and don’t think everyone getting the standard western drug/surgery route is ideal either. I don’t burden the healthcare system whatsoever because I lead a healthy lifestyle and, here’s the kicker, have actually saved money in case of an emergency that requires ambulance and hospitals. Why should I pay more into a system that sucks so that everyone can have sucky healthcare?