I have a low carb pasta by dream fields it only has 6 g of digestible carbs(made from semolina) in it per serving…and a decent amount of fiber…its glycemic index is only 13! Should I only count the calories from the digestible carbs in my calorie count?..and subtract the stuff thats not digestible? Whats your take on this?
should i only save the semolina pasta for PWO?
I really like Dreamfield’s pasta, but it’s still a starchy carb and one that should be saved for your PWO meal … in measured amounts (that 2:1 ratio of starchy carbs to protein you always see me recommending).
I need to do some more checking/research on the Dreamfield’s pasta … on the degree to which it affects blood sugar levels. There seems to be some controversy and a lack on consensus as to how it affects people.
My recommendation would be that you just treat it like any other starchy carb; save it for your PWO meal only and rotate it with all the others, as many as is possible.
As much as you can, draw from the recommended list of starchy carbs – oatmeal, sweet potatoes, yams, WHOLE WHEAT pasta, amaranth, quinoa, barley – and rotate between all of the items on that list that you possibly can. You need the nutritional variety!!!
Keep up the good work, Pugs! Good questions. I know you’re working hard to make this happen.
what is the maximum amount of time after my post workout shake I have to cosume this PWO solid meal…whats the window?
If you’re sipping a pre-, during, and/or PWO drink (consumed immediately upon completion), you should have a whole food meal an hour later. Is that how it’s working out for you?
Even though we talk about "windows of opportunity), it’s just that the body slowly becomes less insulin sensitive. You are at max insulin sensitivity immediately following your workout.
If getting in a proper PWO meal is a problem because of time, just prepare something in advance and take it to the gym with you.
UPDATE!
Hey Guys I just had my weekly weigh in…
Heres my Stats
1.2lbs weight loss
Last week LBM(Lean body Mass): 196.42
This week LBM: 197.20
(+ .72lbs LBM(muscle) …there will be a little variance in this)
Last weeks FM(Fat Mass): 95.37 FM
This weeks FM: 93.40 FM
Last weeks Bodyfat %: 32.685%
This weeks BF %: 32.14%
So some improvements in there guys, still a shift in Muscle/fat Comp…
Heres my daily Cal layout and yes I have been finnally increasing my cals…heres the daily Layout (I only had brown rice once in the week PWO and I had a few Low Carb Whole wheat Tortillas (these jokers have 21g of Fiber out of 31 total carbs)…These tortillas were in my breakfast meal (1st of the day)…
Saturday: 2337 213p 179c 86f
Sunday: 1717 176p 112c 62f (not including a big meal of Chicken, veggies, bacon and cheese at a mexican resturant , no carbs)
Monday: 2933 88f 215c 320p
Tuesday: 2978 42f 352c 299p (ran out of food I had a whole can of blackbeans hence the carbs)
Weds: 3382 64f 405c 290p (went overboard on the dreamfields Durum Semolina LC pasta PWO)
Thursday: 3396 144f 202c 310p
Friday: 3255 136f 212c 301p
Heres my Measurements…although some of them increased I think that was a muscle gain issue…my chest got bigger but the pinch test on the Fat there seems smaller…
Chest Measurements: 49.5 (up a quarter inch…my chest and back measuremnt is almost as big as my stomach!)
Stomach: 51.0 (down .5 inches)
Legs : 29.5 (up .3 of an inch)
Arms flexed: 17.75 (same)
Around Butt/hips: 52.25 (up .75 inches …kinda confused about this one?)
Johnson: HAHA j/k! LOL
I would like to start losing a bit more fat than muscle gain so The number on the scales go down a bit…any suggestions Tampa Terry…I have been getting my three apples a day…and my veggie consumption has been pretty decent(im so full These fillers are a bit much sometimes…
I lifted twice this week with one day of Cardio (my Third day lifting is Today)…I have just started OVT last week…
Guys I know one thing I never knew it or took pics of it…but my upp back developement is pretty impressive in my eyes…(I geuss from Deads in Powerlifintg years ago and alot of weight assisted chins)…but I looked at my upper back the other in the mirror and I saw some noticable cuts back there I Never noticed before…
Suggestions?
Chris
(grin)
Good job, there, Chris!!! I am so proud of you!!! The progress you’re making is picking up with every passing week. And that’s because you’re repairing your metabolism.
There isn’t a person I’ve worked with that hasn’t wanted more scale weight loss when they were getting inches lost … and who wanted more inches lost when they were losing scale weight. Unfortunately, when a person’s metabolism is being repaired, they have to let the body just do its thing. What is going to happen is that you are going to continue increasing LBM on the number of calories you are currently eating and then at a certain point, when you’ve put on enough LBM, then fat loss and weight loss will really take off.
The point you’re at right now is where I typically tell people, “Put on your blinders and keep doing what you’re doing because the progress you’re making is a lot more significant than you realize.” It’s hard, I know, but weight loss and fat loss are two entirely different ball games. The former requires that you cut your calories low enough that the number on the scale drops. The latter requires a lot more finesse and precision and discipline.
If you weren’t taking measurements, Pugs, this is probably the point where you’d CUT calories … and you never would have added in the calories I told you to in the first place! Repairing your metabolism, though, requires that you eat enough calories and eat in a way that protects (and if at all possible, adds to!) LBM. You’re doing that!!! If you did cut calories (enough), you would lose weight more quickly, but it would be at the expense of the muscle you’re carrying and your metabolism!
Don’t change a thing, Pugs! Just stick as tightly to your plan and the recommendations I made as you can and keep reporting in your results. My promise to you is that if two weeks go by and neither scale weight is lost nor inches lost, I’ll help you tweak and adjust your plan.
Very, very nice progress, Pugs! Not just the fact that you’re seeing increases in LBM while dieting and losing weight, but also the fact that the number of calories you’re taking in is increasing and you’re getting away from the starchy carbs in non-PWO meals!!! (grin)
Out of the quinoa, steel cut oats, oat groats and wheat berries, can all be used as a morning substitute for oats? Just no brown rice, correct? How do you prepare these? Any recipes? Also what’s the taste and texture of each since I have got all of them now…which one resembles brown rice the most?
In general, Pugs, I prefer to keep starchy carbs out of the diet ENTIRELY, except for the PWO meal. But in your case, you were consuming so many starchy carbs that limiting them to just breakfast and your PWO meal is an improvement, and with everything else dialed in, you’re making some very nice progress.
Excluding brown rice is really a bit arbitrary … meaning I could argue against its inclusion just as easily as I could rationalize that one starchy carb isn’t that much different from the others I signed off on.
Go ahead and allow yourself a measured amount of starchy carbs for breakfast and your PWO meal. I’ll leave the amount and selection in the morning up to you. You can keep it until you reach a point that you aren’t making satisfactory progress towards your goals, at which point we’ll cut out the starchy carbs in the morning.
How does that sound?
I think those others are lower glycemic arent they than brown rice…I have had oats in the mornings so I wont have BR in the morning, but the others I might have…any idea on the glycemic amount of each of them?
Just checking in to give you props for the Tyler Perry reference. Keep on truckin’.
Could you give me an idea what my meal order should be on WO days…cause I do my P and C meals in the morning but workout in the evening…I end up doing 5 P and c meals in a PWO day cause I am not sure what to do with it…
Also what should my cals layout be on these days?
Pugs, you’re right that the glycemic index of food varies from food item to food item. I could look up the numbers and give 'em to you, but in a way, it’s sort of irrelevant … which sounds funny coming from a numbers nerd like me. (grin)
Here’s how I work through things when designing a diet. Carbs fall into a few categories. I use them for different reasons.
-
Fibrous green veggie carbs. You’re right. They don’t spike insulin, they’re high in fiber, fill you up, can’t be overeaten, and have all sorts of vitamins and minerals and health benefits.
-
Starchy garbage carbs. Chips, nachos, cookies, bakery items, candy bars, non-diet drinks, anything with sugar or flour in it. These should be avoided by anyone dieting, excluding your cheat-treat meal.
-
Quality starchy carbs: Oatmeal, sweet potatoes, yams, brown rice, quinoa, amaranth, barley, whole wheat pasta. These are carbs that should be used in your PWO meal to refill muscle glycogen. They are starchy carbs that have health benefits and thus, redeeming value(s). They do spike insulin, but that’s something you want to do PWO to lower cortisol, facilitate repair and rebuilding and to shuttle amino acids to the muscles that you just worked out.
Beans. This is a carb that I’ll artificially add into people’s diets by making them a REQUIREMENT. They have so many health benefits, along with providing people with a quality, sustained-release energy. Whole articles (and books!) have been written on the benefits of including beans into your diet. I don’t recommend unlimited amounts, though … usually somewhere between a half cup and a cup on a daily basis … in the meal that a person is typically the hungriest.
Fruit. A very useful carb source. No fruit is off limits. Some are higher in sugar than others, which is why I’ll give people a caloric number range to hit. The important thing with fruit is VARIETY!!! Fruits, too, have a variety of health benefits, as is being played upon by the MLM’ers (Multi-Level Marketers) – taking Noni, Mangosteen and Goji & Wolfberries. Above and beyond any health benefits, fruit preferentially refills LIVER glycogen, and the liver is the organ responsible for maintaining steady blood sugar levels. The benefit of steady blood sugar levels? Steady ENERGY levels and mental focus – no energy spikes and dips like people have after eating a high-carb meal.
Flavor carbs: Garlic, onions, soy sauce, ginger, lemon juice, vinegar, horseradish, mustard, spices (fresh and dried). Spices provide us with variety and taste and flavor. They make the foods we eat more exciting. They also have health benefits, believe it or not. A number are used therapeutically in alternative/complementary medicine.
So the glycemic index of a particular starchy carb doesn’t concern me that much. I really tend to categorize my carbs and use them in different ways, at different times and in different amounts. Go ahead and draw from any within the group I’m recommending. Go for VARIETY as much as you possibly can. Hit the numbers I recommend. If you’re doing that, you don’t have to worry about the GI of a given food.
Are you sorry you asked? (grin)
Could you give me an idea what my meal order should be on WO days…
Sure! Give me the times of your meals and your workout, and I’ll fill it in for you.
I need something like this:
08:00
11:00
01:00
03:00 Workout
04:00 PWO Meal or PWO Drink
etc. …
Also what should my cals layout be on these days?
This is going to sound odd, but even though I take caloric intake into consideration when laying something out, I don’t give people hard caloric numbers to hit. I do give:
- Daily protein totals based on body weight
- Per-meal protein requirements
- Daily fat requirements, divided roughly equally between monounsaturated, polyunsaturated and saturated fat
- Bean AMOUNT requirements
- Fruit requirements
- PWO starchy carb requirements
What I don’t limit is the number of fibrous green veggie carbs you’re allowed to consume, and the reason I don’t do that is fibrous green veggie carbs are self-limiting in nature. You can’t overeat 'em! Promise! On days you are physically active, you’ll eat more. On days you are not physically active, you’ll eat less. They just take care of themselves and for that reason do not need to be measured. You can if you want to, but it’s really not necessary.
Methinks that’s tracking plenty!!! (grin)
I do not run on a time schedule…
just know this…my first three meals of the day are typically P and C and my last 3 are P and F and I workout in the time period that is usually in my first or second P and F meal of the day… How should I oragnize these meals for PWO nutrition when my first 3 meals are P and C…and I workout where my 3 P and F meals usually are…
I do not run on a time schedule…
Schedules really aren’t a bad thing, Pugs! (grin)
Trade a P+C meal for a P+F meal so that you have a P+C meal following your workout. Ideally you would work out 2 hours after a meal so that by the time you finished in the gym, you’d be due for a PWO meal.
The P+C meals are really P+Fruit meals, exceptions being your first meal of the day and your PWO meal. You should still consume fruit in those two meals, but definitely some starchy carbs in your PWO meal (resistance training only, not cardio) and the carbs we discussed in your first meal of the day.
well my first meal of the day is the quinoa or groats and egg beaters and the other two are chili usually…so your saying just swap one meal…but that would mean that my meals went like this
P and C
P and C
P and F
P and C
P and F
that only takes into account one post workout meal (I split my post workout into a pre and post shake)
If I only have one PW meal what about the chicken and rice or something after my PWO shake?
Swap two P and C meals in the morning for the evening to use PWO?
[quote]Pugsley wrote:
UPDATE!
Hey Guys I just had my weekly weigh in…
Heres my Stats
1.2lbs weight loss
Last week LBM(Lean body Mass): 196.42
This week LBM: 197.20
(+ .72lbs LBM(muscle) …there will be a little variance in this)
Last weeks FM(Fat Mass): 95.37 FM
This weeks FM: 93.40 FM
Last weeks Bodyfat %: 32.685%
This weeks BF %: 32.14%
So some improvements in there guys, still a shift in Muscle/fat Comp…
Heres my daily Cal layout and yes I have been finnally increasing my cals…heres the daily Layout (I only had brown rice once in the week PWO and I had a few Low Carb Whole wheat Tortillas (these jokers have 21g of Fiber out of 31 total carbs)…These tortillas were in my breakfast meal (1st of the day)…
Saturday: 2337 213p 179c 86f
Sunday: 1717 176p 112c 62f (not including a big meal of Chicken, veggies, bacon and cheese at a mexican resturant , no carbs)
Monday: 2933 88f 215c 320p
Tuesday: 2978 42f 352c 299p (ran out of food I had a whole can of blackbeans hence the carbs)
Weds: 3382 64f 405c 290p (went overboard on the dreamfields Durum Semolina LC pasta PWO)
Thursday: 3396 144f 202c 310p
Friday: 3255 136f 212c 301p
Heres my Measurements…although some of them increased I think that was a muscle gain issue…my chest got bigger but the pinch test on the Fat there seems smaller…
Chest Measurements: 49.5 (up a quarter inch…my chest and back measuremnt is almost as big as my stomach!)
Stomach: 51.0 (down .5 inches)
Legs : 29.5 (up .3 of an inch)
Arms flexed: 17.75 (same)
Around Butt/hips: 52.25 (up .75 inches …kinda confused about this one?)
Johnson: HAHA j/k! LOL
I would like to start losing a bit more fat than muscle gain so The number on the scales go down a bit…any suggestions Tampa Terry…I have been getting my three apples a day…and my veggie consumption has been pretty decent(im so full These fillers are a bit much sometimes…
I lifted twice this week with one day of Cardio (my Third day lifting is Today)…I have just started OVT last week…
Guys I know one thing I never knew it or took pics of it…but my upp back developement is pretty impressive in my eyes…(I geuss from Deads in Powerlifintg years ago and alot of weight assisted chins)…but I looked at my upper back the other in the mirror and I saw some noticable cuts back there I Never noticed before…
[/quote]
Suggestions?
Hey Bro, your doing great. I think you being honest and open with your stats and info is a great way to go. It’s like having alot of work out partners. When your accountable to others you are more likely to stick to your goals.
I will check up on you and see if I can incourage you if I can.
I have personally been making great progress with my diet lately. It looks like your on the right track aswell. don’t give up.
Chris[/quote]
You’re on the right track, Pugs. Back to the conceptual approach, the only difference between your two days (workout day vs. non-workout day) is that you’re including extra starchy carbs in the form of your PWO drink and your PWO meal. So you’re running a bit higher on calories on the days you work out and a bit lower on the days you don’t.
I’m glad you eat chili, but limit it to one meal a day. A serving of chili should provide you with your per-meal protein requirements and 1 cup of beans. You should also have a serving of fruit in that meal. So it might look like this:
P and C (P + Starchy Carbs & Fruit)
P and C (P + Fruit)
P and F (P + Olive Oil)
Workout (PWO Drink = Surge)
P and C (PWO Meal; P + Starchy Carbs + Fruit)
P and F (P + Flaxseed Oil)
The chili could be consumed at any of the P+C meals above, either Meal 2 or Meal 4.
Don’t worry about the carbs from Surge. They’re part of the larger master plan. All you have to do is count the protein towards protein requirements.
It’s looking good, Pugs. Is today your weigh-in day? How did that go, and are you making progress towards your goals?
Hey guys sorry for the late update…I was SOO busy this weekend…soo much soo that after a month I had a cheat day today and man it felt good…but tommorow its back on the grindstone…
Funny thing happened this whole week was a “on the go week” meaning I ate as clean as I could but most days my meals were on the go…and not perfect meals like my prep meals…there was a few like this this week…
I weighed in on saturday morn at a dissapointing 291 lbs…gained .4 lbs…but the next morning after being gone all day and having to eat on the road all day I weighed in this morning at 288.8! Wow why the difference…maybe a little water weight?
My stats here will be based on the 291 weigh in…since the measurements go with it…
Weight 291 (+.4lbs)
Chest: 49.5 (same)
Waist: 51.1 (.1+ inches)
Legs: 29.5 (same)
Arms: 17.9! ( I remeasured it to check! Thats a .4 inch gain in one week on my arms! Maybe its the OVT!)
Butt: 52 (-.25in)
BF%: 32.1 % (roughly the same)
FFM: 197.217 (+~.1lb muscle)
FM: 93.7 lbs (+.3 lbs fat)
These measurements may be better than this going with the 288.8 next day weigh in but I just low balled it with this one…
Back on the grind guys!
I slipped a bit, but tommorow is a new day and I am gonna knock this out!
Chris
Cool beans!!! Those numbers tell me a lot. Some things are going down, some are going up. You’re right that at the lower 288.8 number the measurements would be different.
Bathroom habits, water weight, slight deviations in what you’re eating can alter the numbers by that much in a day’s time … easily!!! I always tell people that I want to look at 2 weeks’ numbers before making changes to their diet. Even then, I’ll ask if they stuck to their plan > 90% of the time. If not, that’s what they need to do … tighten up a bit.
All in all, I’m happy with the results you’re getting, Pugs!!! Can’t wait for next week. (grin)