T Nation

The Diary of a Mad Fat Man

Hey guys I am going to devote this to my progress I have been having to seek corporate advice from all of you all I am gonna post some old threads from me to fill you in from where I was at up until today…



Hey Guys I just read the Precision Nutrition Article(from '98) and I would like to know what alot of the seasoned guys on here think about its reccomendations for calories as well as protein grams and macro breakdown…considering I am 5’11 296 and close to 30% bf, but would like to preserve as much muscle as possible when I drop weight…I am a slow to a slow-Mod metabolism and about 197 lbs of LBM…

Here was my calcs for losing fat from his formulas

2039 calories

550 Protein cals 137 g
1060 Carbs cals 265g
428 Fat cals 47.5

and approx
44 protein and 88 carbs in the PWO shake prolly split in two…

Heres the article


I am doing 3 weight workouts a week(lactic acid training by Charles P)


I am thinking of bumping cals up to 2500 and starting from there and adjusting…since I have just came off a very low cal type diet…


I correct myself…I tried to consume 23-2400 cals today and I had to forcefeed myself! I am coming off a low cal diet…so I had to forcefeed myself the cals

Heres the breakdown of my meals

1.25 cups egg beaters and peppers and .25 lbs of chiken breast mixed in
2 servings of quaker rolled oats
10g of Brown sugar splenda
a small bit of smart beat butter/margerine subs

Breakfast Cals= 590 cals protein 65
69 carbs fat minimal

Meal 2 (5 hours later after reading 21st century nutrition)

A couple cups of Spinach with .65 lbs of chicken breast plus fat free dressing

2 servings quaker oats
BS splenda

Butter marg subs

Cals: 495 cals (p and c meal) 80 protein 65 carbs minimal fats

The last three meals of the day are comprised of 3 whey isolate and concentrate protein shakes each with a tablespoon of Smart Balance Omega PB

about 820 cals 32 fats 111 protein and 23 carbs

Total day approx 2300-2400 cals 260-270 pro ~200 carbs and 56 fats

whats your take of this

I split up the p/c p/f meals the best I could and following dave barrs articles with the bigger meals I waited a few hours longer cause there was still protein floating in my system with that much food…Also according to Berardi(I think) I Consumed a siginificantly larger breakfast and earlier meals and it really curbes your appetite! Then progressing to smaller and more protein and fat oriented meals later in the day…

I will measure myself and see where this goes after a week and adjust my cals accordingly…

What you guys think?


Heres what I had today guys…tampa terry let me know what you think!

Two of my first three meals were comprised of Chicken breast and Brown rice:
Approx(each) 490 cals 51 protein 58 carbs 6 Fat= Total 980 102 pro 116 carbs 12 fat

The meal that I separated the two with was
a whey isolate/concetrate blend:

260 cals 50 protein 3.5 fat and 7 carbs

The next meal was 4 Bodybuilder bons bons

472 cals 32 protein 15 carbs 36 fats (flax seeds and natural pb)

I had a homemade protein bar as a snack about an hour later cause I was taking a 4 hour nap!
118 cals 13.6 protein 8.4 carbs 4.3 fats

Next meal another chicken and rice dish with some broccoli and ff dressing to dip in…

515 51p 58c and 6f

Last meal was after a 20 mins ab workout (I know not post workout quality, but I am about to go to bed!)

.5 cup 2% Cottage cheese , one scoop protein powder, and 4 ounces of OJ…

195 cals 25 protein 20-25 carbs

Total Approx: 2551 274 pro 236 carbs 66Fats

Any suggestions if I should have done this differently?


well guys I have some very shocking news…to all who were saying my cals were too low…you were right…very right

I am not sure if it is just a rebound…But despite consuming mostly brown rice and oatmeal as my carbs about 200-250 g a day depending on workout or Non Workout…

Despite being about 2300-2500 cals a day since Thursday…I have gone from 302 at night on weds (I had a fresh meal in my stomach so maybe take away 2 pounds or so) To this morning I was shocked when I was at 294.6! Thats an 6-8 pound drop in three days by increasing my calories by 1000-1300 a day and adding more carbs! I am still shocked! Whats your take on this?..

I got sidetracked if anyone is wondering last weekend I was 296.5 and balooned up to 302 on weds night…hence the big difference…but net loss is about 2 pounds…

I think I will stick with the rice and oatmeal (These are part of P and C meals which I predominantly have in the mornings then switch to P and F at nights) for 2-3 of 6 meals and see if this keeps me losing to a normal 2-3 lbs a week…if I does Ill keep it that way I geuss!

Let me know whats your guys take on this?!

My second question is what goes on in the body when you push it to the limit physically…I am going to be using Thibs running man program for my cardio…well tonight was my first night…

Here What I did and heres what happened…

I wen into the gym and did about 4 sets of heavy lat pull downs and two sets of heavy cable curls…was plenty warmed up then hit the pavement…given its 11:55 pm and 30 degrees f in Greensboro NC…Cold!

I found along empty parking lot and did a 50 meter sprint and ran another 100 meters (remember my out of shapness and extra weight and also lack of cardio conditioning in the past 5 years)…

What ensued after this was horrible! I did a full out sprint at 295 pounds for about 200 meters maybe a tad less…I got into my car and my heart and lungs were pounding! I drop back to my Apt a few blocks away in a state of very lightheadedness and like I was going to throw up…

I barely climbed the stairs (3 flights) and literally fell down on the couch with my heart pounding and breathing super heavy and sweating alot…(my engine hadn’t had its afterburners turned on like that in years!

I literally fell asleep in deep deep relaxation for the next 35-40 mins to come back to my senses and I was like "Man I feel all better now like I can stand up again!)

What causes this lightheadedness and feeling like I am gonna pass out? I used to feel like this when I was doing Fat Fast and German Body Comp (BAD BAD COMBO!!) I felt dazed and like I was gonna pass out if I didnt lay down…

Do you think its more of an insulin and nutrient thing, or a fact that blood was rushed towards these muscles very very quickly and a lack of oxygen to my brain?

After I layed down and my heart slowed down a bit I was fine and could stand up but before that I felt like I was gonna pass out…

Id like to get feedback on both of these things

thanks again!


(in response to a question about my exp level)

I am very experienced in lifting…for the past 7 or 8 years…although cardio has been a while since I have done any sort of intense cardio…although I have done plenty of 70-80% heartrate cardio, just not very frequently in the past 3 years…although in my past I played soccer several times a week and had plenty…so that sprinting has been a while since I have done any…

aside from not doing any sprinting work in the past few years…what do you think physically happened there…I have had times in the past when I really pushed myself and would run a mile without stopping and would lay down and crash for 30 mins just letting my heart rate come back off the ceiling…I was trained fairly well then…

I am gonna post my post from today in a following section


Hey Terry!

I just wanted to seek your advice and let you know on my progress from week to week…Not sure if I need to change anything but here are my stats this week and changes from last week (its based on a formula in Hardcore Bodybuilding: the sceintific method…on waist measurement as well a weight its a big long formula…but I have found it to be pretty accurate with me compared to the skinfolds…which are a bit hard to do when you have alot of BF! But thise method was within .5% of the calipers so I have been using it the past three weeks) These figures are based upon two to three readings with the waist measurements and giving a high and low ball figure

Last Saturday:

294.6 weight
Waist : 51.74-52.25
Fat Free mass: 196.350-198.442
Fat mass: 96.157-98.249


295.0! Weight (+.5 lbs)
Waist: 51.5-51.75 (-.24 to -.5 inches)

Fat Free mass: 198.8375-199.88
(+1.438 to +2.4875 lbs)

Fat Mass: 95.12-96.17 lbs
(-1.037 to -2.079 lbs)

So it looks like there was a transition of weight (I freaked at first when I saw my weight! Then I measured and saw the changes!) I gained .5 lbs but also gained 1.43-2.48 lbs of LBM in the past week and lost 1.037-2.079 lbs as well!

Not sure if I should leave my diet where it is at right now and see what happens next week then make any changes…I just know that very rarely does a swap like this happen and to treasure it when it does!

Not sure if the muscle gain says anything about what I am consuming or anything…you can tell me that or if I need to make any changes…lbs on a scale do not matter to me as long as my body as a whole is heading in the right direction…maybe you can filter the question to change anything through that thought…

I did not do as much weight training as I would have liked (one session then second of the week was today…maybe that means I was over training…IDK…I did do some cardio though one night was 4 sets of suicides (bball court) I ran almost a half mile and .1 of that was walking…the third time I ran around the apartment complex…prolly between .75 to 1 mile and walked .4 of the time…

Let me know whats your take on all this I am also gonna start a thread on this

Heres my average nutrients since I started recording a Log on weds

Weds: 2492 286p 172c 77f
Thursday: 2665 244p 295c 62f
Friday: 2367 212p 154c 85c

(though friday does not include a meal I ate out which consisted of 6 oz of Chicken Breast a cup of mashed potatoes, cucumber salad and 2 small rolls (it was my second meal of the day (mostly p+c)

The second thing I noticed today was either where I dropped that fat from or where that muscle was gained…I was doing some breathing pullovers (old classic) as well as Bench press and Negative preacher machine curls (4 reps 10 secs a piece, one arm at a time…my only biceps work today…)

After I got done with the preacher curls I flexed my tris in the mirror and I was like HOLY Sh**!! I almost fainted! I know what my triceps look like and I have never seen my lower rear part of the horseshoe that freaking huge and defined to boot! I had always said it looking like I had zero rear tri development…I ran all the way over to my buddy on the cardio eqmt and looked like a gay fool flexing my tris for him I was soo excited…it caught me by suprise!

I have never seen that type of tri development or definition in MY arms my whole life! My arms are already a solid 18inches (meaning I can see some definition, and prolly would be in the 17.5 neighborhood ripped)…but I dont know if the pulovers causesd those babies to pop out when blood got to them(i do not do them often)…I didnt even feel any work in my tri’s doing the pullovers at all…so I geuss not…

My geuss is that te little bit of fat dropped in past week came off those…or the muscle went there (I know partitioning like this in muscle gain or fat lose is a myth, but thats the only way I can explain these results I saw…it wasnt a fluke cause my Leftie was just as suprising as my right and I have flexed my tri’s enough in the mirror to know what they look like and today they were all dressed up for me :wink:

Maybe someone can shed some light on this! Also feedback on the past weeks Body changes in weight and fat and advice is welcome…


Thanks again!


Keep working hard. Don’t overanalyse your caloric intake too much, if you’re losing weight it’s working.

You probably almost died from the cardio becasue the strain on your body was too much- in all honesty, your probably just way out of shape. If you had to lie down for 1/2 an hour after you ran a mile then you weren’t in good shape.

Keep working hard in the gym, but train intelligently. When you’re that heavy, any kind of movement is more strenuous on the body than it would be otherwise. Know your body’s limits and train accordingly; you’ll never progress if you just keep on ovetraning and recovering. Keep pounding away.

Really good information you provide there, Pugsley!!! You definitely are making some progress. Let’s see if we can’t fine-tune things a bit.

Let me give you some numbers to hit.

I tend to like 1g of protein per pound of body weight even at higher body fat percentages. Your daily protein requirements are 295g of protein. If you’re eating 6 meals a day (every 3 to 3.5 hours), that works out to 49g of protein per meal. To make it easier on yourself, just try to hit 45-50g of protein at each of your meals.

Fat. You should be eating 0.4g of fat per pound of body weight. That works out to 118g of fat per day. But let’s divide it equally between you monounsaturated fats (like in olive oil, avocado, and macadamia nuts), polyunsaturated fat (like in fish oil and flaxseed oil) and saturated fat (like in the lean cuts of egg, meat and dairy you eat). If you have 2 P+F meals, you could do something like this:

2.5 tablespoons of olive oil (35g of fat) at one P+F meal
2.5 tablespoons of flaxseed oil (35g of fat) at the other P+F meal.

Other than that, try to choose leaner cuts of meat – egg white omelet with one whole egg instead of whole eggs, chicken breasts instead of dark meat and skinless, of course, fish, low fat cottage cheese, protein powder (Metabolic Drive, right? (grin)). If you generally pick lower fat protein sources, you can generally get away with one meal with a fattier meat, say dark turkey meat or steak or even measured amounts of nuts. At the end of the day, though, you want to have consumed your olive oil and flaxseed oil and you want to have not gone over that 118g of fat you’re allowed/required to eat.

That leaves carbs. The good news is you’re allowed all the fibrous green veggie carbs you want. You don’t even have to weigh and measure or track 'em, except for your own purposes. You can have fibrous green veggie carbs at any meal, P+C or P+F. But have it without the sauces and dressings. If you need a salad dressing, make your own from flaxseed or olive oil. Add some herbs and vinegar and Splenda to taste.

I also want to artificially give you a couple of other requirements I’d like to see you meet on a daily basis. One, have a brassica every day (like broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts, etc.). Two, have a serving (1 cup) of beans or lentils every day (like black eyed peas, pinto beans, black beans, lima beans, kidney beans). Three, have a piece/serving of fruit at each of your three P+C meals.

Eating the type of carbs I recommended above will keep you full, keep you healthy, stabilize blood sugar levels, give you better mental energy and alertness.

It’s a simple diet and not a lot to track. In fact, if you make a list of every protein you eat and the number of ounces you need to eat to hit your per-meal protein numbers, it’s a breeze! What you have to be careful on is the “extras.” Cheese should only be used as a garnish. Peanut butter and nuts can be consumed, so long as you don’t go over your fat requirements (118g).

The only other carbs you should be eating are the starchy carbs you need in your PWO meal. I recommend a 2:1 ratio of starchy carbs to protein in your PWO meal. That means you can have up to 100g of starchy carbs in the form of oatmeal, sweet potatoes, yams, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, quinoa, amaranth.

Okay, those are the hard numbers I promised you. Why don’t you give that a ride for a week or two and let me know how you’re doing. The few things I’d recommend that will set you up for success is that you pick one day a week and do a bunch of cooking. Cook all your chicken breasts or cook a turkey (.59 a pound at Wal-Mart for anyone on a budget!). Cook a big pot of beans. If you’re going to eat 3 servings of oatmeal because you work out 3 times a week, cook all 3 at one time. The other thing I’d recommend is that you make sure you’re taking your food with you, as much as you need, whenever you leave the house. When you’re eating at a caloric deficit, you’d darn well better have your food with you when you’re due for a meal or you’ll end up eating something, anything that’s available!!!

Questions? (grin) Did I miss anything?


The hardest thing I am running into is my fats…also to let you know I am kinda using a mix of Lonnie and Berardi…I am having P and F meals and P and C meals, but ala Lonnie I am having my first two carb containing meals of the day in the morning (except PWO in which case I have 3 P and C meals, not two) I do my P and F meals in the evening except PWO…

My favorite first two meals of the day that are P and C are Chicken and Brown Rice, and Homemade healthy chili…I will see how this week fares then make adjusments to the diet…I have lowered the food calories a bit (except today! I Miscalculated my cals! I had a good weight workout for about 45mins and then a good hour of boxing with gloves and a bag for cardio afterwards(tiring!)…

Per JB I have been taking my PWO nutrients and splitting them between pre and post WO…and it has made a world of difference in recovery!..

I Had 800 cals split between pre and post workout (thats where I miscalcualted!..should have been more like 600!) In the form of a juice mix (Lonnie and Dave Barr approved!) And 50g of Whey…

About an hour after I left the gym I had another Chicken and Brown Rice (440 cals…49p…51c…3f)

So heres how a typical days (non WO) layout looks

  1. Chicken and Brown Rice (same cals as above)

  2. Healthy Chili (lots of kidney and black beans and chicken Breast) 366cal 52c 36p 1f

  3. Usually a 50g protein, flax and Omega PB shake (450 20f 14c 57p) or like today cause I just ran out of protein I’ll Have several string cheeses(5 or so) as a P and F meal (80cals 6f 1c and 7p per cheese)

  4. Omelette with egg beaters and one Omega Egg with 2 string cheeses(also fresh spinach and peppers and onions are put in there)…430 cals 51p 23f 8c

  5. 2% cottage cheese and protein powder
    265 cals 43p 13c 6f

and based on your reccomendation I have added 2 TBS of Olive oil at this last meals of the day 240 cals 14gf per tbs)

Yesterday this gave me a total of 2236 cals, 242p, 141c(all in the 1st two meals), and 83f

Thats a typical Non WO day above…

Also two things that have made a HUGE difference are two products my friend markets one is a Rhodiola Supplement which as a PRE WO supplement is way way better than Spike …although I have both…I did 45mins of liftng and an hour of boxing today and I felt like going for more cardio when I finished!! Its is crazy! It cost me thirty bucks and
it has lasted me three months of workouts well worth the cost…

The other cause although I do get fruits and veggies in my diet I do not get enough is called Concentrated Fruits and Veggies…they basically take all the phytonutrients directly from plant sources to a pill form(within and hour of harvesting)…I am no statistician but its stats are something like

Lutein=to 1cup spinach
Lycopene=to 1 tomato
Quercetin=to 5 apples or something
Ellagic Acid=to 1.5 cups raspberries
Hesperidan=to 3 oranges
Egcg=to 2 servings of Green tea…

I did not believe it when he told me…but those phytos changed something! Not sure what though…a feeling I geuss…hard to describe…

And Of course I started HOT-ROX and ZMA yesterday…

I kinda mixed Berardi and Lonnie thats why the carbs in the mornings and on WO days…pre/post WO also…

The only thing I really need to try harder on is the Broccoli and Healthy fats (budget is limited but getting better) So all I have access to is flax seeds , omega eggs and PB and Olive Oils…

I am also a bit scared of jacking my cals up even more…ones that come with that extra protein and Fats…I really did not want to go above 2500 since last week I stayed in that area and my losses were good but could have been better…Let me know what you think…


Calories count, yes, Pugsley, but it’s not entirely calories in and calories out. If you implement my recommendations, the calories will take care of themselves, I promise … and you will start making the kind of progress you’re wanting to while maintaining athletic performance. It’s a delicate balance, and it’s something that will likely need to be fine-tuned along the way as you lose weight.

Re your P+C meals, the chili works. You can have that every day. That’s a tasty way of getting in your beans. I tell people to put 10 servings of meat (equal to 490g of protein for you) into the pot with 10 servings of beans (10 cups for you). Add all the other stuff, the spices and tomatoes. Let it cool and divide up the end result into 10 Tupperware containers or ZipLoc bags. That’s my idea of fast food! (grin)

The brown rice, though, is a starchy carb. I’d prefer to see you save that for your PWO meal (resistance training, not cardio).

Re the flaxseed oil requirement, it doesn’t need to be oil. 3 tablespoons of flax SEEDS has roughly the same amount of good fat as you’d get in 1 tablespoon of the oil.

Just make sure you’re hitting your P and F numbers. I’m really serious re eating UNLIMITED fibrous green veggie carbs. Your caloric intake is exceedingly low for your weight. The lowest I’ll generally start someone dieting is at caloric intake equal to 10 times their body weight. A caloric intake of 2236 is 8 times body weight!!! That’s really too low for you. We have to make LIFESTYLE changes and rebuild your metabolism, and you’ve got to get off the weight-loss roller coaster. It’s not good for your heart or your health or the athletic performance I know you want to maintain and even improve upon!!!

Give it a shot, Chris. We can fine-tune along the way. I’ll help you do that if you’d like.

>> Would rolled oats and protein powder be a good replacement for the chicken and rice meal first thing in the morning? What are some other carb options for that first meal?

Good question, Pugsley! Let’s talk about carbs. You’ve got starchier type carbs like brown rice, oatmeal, sweet potatoes, yams, whole wheat pasta, quinoa, amaranth, barley, etc. As healthy as they are, they spike insulin to a greater degree than fibrous green veggies with all their fiber. For that reason we try to time them carefully and eat them in controlled portions.

The two best times to eat carbs is first thing in the morning and following your workout. So yes, give it a try. Have a cup of oatmeal (dry measure). The only other time you’ll be eating starchy carbs, though, is going to be in the meal following your workout. Other than that, think in terms of getting most of your carbs from fibrous green veggies, 3 servings of fruit and 1 serving of beans. The fibrous green veggies are your Hunger Safety Net. If you find you’re hungry, eat more fibrous green veggies.

Make sure that 3 of your meals have a serving of fruit and that one other meal has a serving of beans. You can have any fruit you want, but if a serving is 100-120 calories, you’ll be eating less of some fruit and more of others.

Your dietary approach in a nutshell?

  • Get your protein
  • Get your good fats
  • Get 3 servings of fruit
  • Get 1 serving of beans
  • Eat all the fibrous green veggies you want
  • Have a measured amount of starchy carbs in your PWO meal

The oatmeal in your first meal of the day deviates slightly from what I outlined above, but you’re taking them in at one of the two times of day that people are more insulin sensitive (a good thing).

I did a rough/quick calculation of how many calories you’ll be taking in …

Protein - 1,180
Fat - 1,062
Fruit - 330
Beans - 225
Oatmeal - 150
Totals - 2,947

There’s still room from veggies in the numbers above. Starting out, I’d like you right about 3,000 calories, which is about 10 times body weight. Even though I’ll count 'em when I’m putting someone’s plan together, you don’t need to. They will take care of themselves. Promise! (grin)

Give it a go for two weeks, Pugsley. Put your blinders on, hit your numbers and get to the gym 3 times a week – in and out in an hour, right? If you’re doing that, you can hold me accountable if you’re not seeing the results you’d like. Of course if you do see the results you’d like, you can take all the credit! (grin)

Well guys I have good news and bad news…

Good news Is that I lost 2 pounds…the bad news is It was 2lbs of Muscle! GRR

My weight went from 294.5-292.6

But by my calcs

I Lost between 2.1-2.58 lbs of muscle and my fat varies from a loss of .2 of a lb to gaining .1793 lbs of fat…

Grr this upsets me…I started taking HOT-ROX…and I changed up my diet mid week to what Terry said…so not sure where to point…It does not make sense to me though to raise my cals another 500 and all of a sudden lose fat when at lower cals this week I didnt!

My daily cals varie alot cause of the diet change…

Sunday: 1577 (plus a Kung Pao Chicken Dish no nuts or rice…but could not add this in there cause of the Variance of calories in dishes…


Monday:2236 242p 141c 83f

Tues: 3066 256p 321c 90f (lots of carbs from PWO…

Weds: 2686 232p 180c 124f

Thurs:2439 109f
197p (ran out of powder!) 109f 176c

Friday: 3070 165f 222p 199c (still out of Powder!)

I am not sure where to do changes and what to change…I know my protein alcked cause I ran out of Powder till today…I ditched the morning rice mid week to Oats…and have been eating a big serving of Broccli every night as well as maybe two cups of Spinach…

I have been trying to eat more fruit…alhough it scares me a bit that each piece adds 60 carbs a day to my levels…the number u see above are with 2 apples a day…Guys I may be stubborn and thickheaded…just need direction in what to change/do…

and also I am not sure how to get rid of these fears of adding 500 more cals into the mix and still losing weight! I do not know why I fear this so! Help me please!

thanks for all your help guys…this ticks me off soo badly that I cannot quit or give up! I know a can conquer this stuff…just need help and to get my mind back into the right place again!

ok guys after a two minute pouty pout Im ready!..Im over it… time to move on and conquer this crap… HIT ME AGAIN THAT AINT SO BAD!

after reviewing my notes from last week I believe it was I feel a liitle bit better considering that those calcs above are based upon weight height and waist size…if my waist size didnt change it doesnt mean that my body didnt lose anything it could have pruned those pounds off of my lower body for now and left my stomach untouched…

one thing I have noticed is that My body fat storage is in a heirarchy where it seems as if when one location fills up it goes to the next one…

The place I carry the most weight and the primary one for me is:

Love Handles
Then Chest
Then Legs (or stomach below pretty much the same level)
Then Stomach (horizontally)
Then Face

Since last week and a half I Lost after reviewing my notes…

Waist- .3 to 0 inches lost
Chest- Lost 1 inch to an inch and 1.5 inches
Legs- Lost 1-1.5 inches

Pugsley, don’t stress! If you’re reining in your carbs a bit, the two pounds lost is more likely water weight than LBM.

We need to evaluate your progress based on TRENDS, not on one set of data points.

Remember that carbs are stored in the muscle with water in a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio, so if you reduce your carb intake and deplete glycogen stores even a little, you’re losing 2 or 3 units of water for every unit (molecule) of carbs/glycogen.

You did an excellent job of self-analysis, by the way. Make sure you’re measuring on the same day of every week, same time, out of bed, after you hit the restroom, sans clothes if possible, same clothes if not. You want to take as many of the variables out of it as possible.

Also make sure you’re posting inches lost, too – chest, right arm, stomach, butt, thigh and calf. That information tells me a lot when combined with scale weight changes.

Things that could have led you to believe you lost muscle, above and beyond the water weight thing is a) human error b) margin of error for the testing method itself. Some testing methods have wider margins of error.

I’m pretty happy with your results, Pugsley. Stick to your guns, keep those blinders on and let’s see what happens next week.

How are you doing otherwise? How’s your energy, mood, sleep, and hunger?

Hey guys heres an update on my progress…I am still having trouble getting all my calories in…I also have an injury…it was either doing breathing pullovers or really intense dips(weight counterbalance machine)…not sure which but my trap and neck feels like the worst crick you have ever had…

I have to walk with a slight tilt in it to be comfortable…and it hurts like crap when I rotate it side to side…not sure what to do…

I have only lifted once this week and ran once …the main reason for the lack of lifting is cause that one day I did lift all I did was some intense pushups and it reagitated it and it hurts bad…when I wake up it hurts the worst feels like a slept REALLY wrong…

Despite this and lack of lifting and cardio I still lost .8lbs (291.8lbs) and thats a composition average span of range (based on measurements):

Fat Mass last week: 94.88lbs - 96.34lbs

Fat Mass This week: 93.7lbs -95.37 Lbs

LBM last week: 196.25lbs - 197.70 lbs

LBM this week: 196.42lbs - 198.08 lbs

So I lost a little over a pound of Fat and Gained between .17 to .38 lbs of muscle …

This is a good composition shift in my mind…the HOT-ROX and Carbolin 19 prolly helped with this despite lack of training…I have also added 12g of Fish oils caps, 10g of flax caps and 4g of Cla to my diet daily…

Heres my consumption(P and C 1st three meals P and F second two or three meals):

2-24-07 : 1742 cals 162p 127c 31 f (I rested alot this day and slept!

2-25-07: 2198 240p 135c 65f

2-26-07: 1999 210p 126c 57f (this doesnt include cals from a meal I had out of 5eggs, .75cup of cheese, and 2tbs of blue cheese…take this into consideration)

2-27-07: 2283 222p 107c 78f

2-28-07: 2428 284p 132c 96f

3-1-07: 2489 166c 304p 75f

3-2-07: 2747 247p 143c 141f (lots of mcts in two muscle milks I had!

so basically 26g of my fat consumption has been a combo of flax, fish oil + cla…

All the carbs that you have seen on here were either from oats, beans, tomatoes (in chili) and only once brown rice which I had this morning at breakfast…Terry would brown rice be ok substitute for oats as my breakfast meal since we all know where this meals goes…?

Any reccomendations as to changes? More lifting and cardio of course…but what about calories? Another thing is you can add 240 cals to each of those had I not ran out of money for my three fruits a day…to give you an idea where my cals would be…It is hard to get all the cals I need…I usually am only able to get 5 meals a day cause of my busyness…any suggestions? Help on the shoulder?


You are making progress. I know it’s not as fast as you would like, but your progress will speed up over time as you repair your metabolism. In fact, you’ll know that you’re making progress when your appetite picks up and a meal is due and you’re hungry. In the meantime, if you’re not quite getting in all of your protein and fat in a day’s time, make a protein shake for yourself before you go to bed and stick it in the refrigerator. Have a large glass of water (or two!) before going to bed. When you wake up to hit the restroom, chug down the shake you made for yourself.

Bare minimum, get in your protein and good fats by day’s end!!!

I’m sorry to hear about the injury. Do me a favor and walk until you’re healed and can get back to the gym. Get up early and walk for 45 minutes to an hour. Have a cup of coffee before you go and some protein powder, just a scoop (20g). When you’re healed and start working out again, don’t be trying to make up for lost time and exercising your way to thinness. Your diet is going to do that for you. Instead, lay a foundation for yourself. Don’t be trying to break PRs. Make sure you’re doing 5 minutes of cardio before lifting to raise your core temp and get the heart pumping and blood to the muscles you’ll be working out. Look at some of Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson’s articles and maybe send them a PM and ask them if they’d stop by and make some recommendations.

When I looked over the numbers/totals you provided me, the first thing I did was look to see if you were getting your protein in. Repeating, if you do nothing else, get your protein and good fats in. 162g of protein for a guy your size just isn’t acceptable!!! The fibrous green veggies are negotiable, though you should go through the motions and have a few bites every meal. The fruit is going to help keep your energy up and blood sugar levels steady. So try to get in your fruits. 100 calories x 3 isn’t much.

Fat is too low, too. At 292 pounds you should be eating 117g of fat per day. 1/3 of that number should be in the form of olive oil, 1/3 should be in the form flaxseed oil. 2.5 Tablespoons of olive oil and 2.5 Tablespoons of flaxseed oil. Add it to your protein shake. Pour it over your veggies or meat. You shouldn’t be consuming extras like cheese until you are hitting/meeting your good fat numbers. I’m not saying you can’t have cheese. I’m saying that you shouldn’t be eating cheese when you’re not getting in your olive oil and flaxseed oil.

I don’t know what you do for work, but try getting out and walking during lunch, even if it’s cold. It will clear out the cobwebs and stimulate appetite.

I’d really prefer to see you get in your oatmeal and not replace it out for brown rice for breakfast. Oatmeal is going to lower your cholesterol. Oatmeal has fiber. Oatmeal is a power food and will put hair on your chest! Okay, okay, I’m joking on the last one, of course. (grin) Let me explain what we’re doing. We’re trying to break your carb/sugar addiction and teach your body to draw on stored body fat to meet caloric deficits. Right now, your body is rebelling. That’s why I asked about your energy levels. When blood sugar levels drop, your body wants its carb/sugar fix and sends out very strong signals that it wants you to get blood sugar levels back up. That’s what is causing the mental cravings you’re experiencing. That’s ANOTHER reason I want you getting in your protein. We are trying to keep you full (stuffed? (grin)) on purpose. Hungry people tend to make poor food choices.

As far as the brown rice goes, remember that you can have it 3 or 4 days a week in your PWO meal. Starchy carbs in that PWO meal should be consumed in a 2:1 ratio with protein. If your per-meal protein requirements are 50g, you should be consuming 100g of starchy carbs in your PWO meal.

Re your workout, repeating, do not be exercising injured muscles. Work around your injuries or walk in the morning and/or lunch. Let your body heal. You’re in this for the long haul, right?

You’re on track and making progress, Pugs!!! I appreciate the update. Keep those blinders on and pushing to hit your numbers.

Yeh for some reason those weekends are really hard to get all the calories I do alot of catching up on sleep and taking naps…so please do not look at weekend numbers and determine thats my normal numbers…I worked out tonight starting OVT…it is kinda hard to keep going cause of fatigue (read Joel’s new article) I have a high number of those fibers being my main training was a powerlifting type regimen 80% of the time…first two sets of 5 are good…but I have to drop the weight 5-10 lbs per set after that on BP…I think the injury is pretty much gone…although hellacious…like the worst crick in your neck! Though the past three days I have kept a hot pack on it 10 hours a day and its helped ALOT!

My workout was good tongith no real problems…I think the muscle was my longissimus cervicus in my neck (insertion point betwene shoulder blades) based upon the pain in two places at those approx insertion points…I have been getting my cals in better yesterday was 2950 tonight is closer to 300 (though cause I ran out of food and money for it I had 300 carbs today although 160 of it was pre and post workout…

When I take those apples into consideration that usually makes my carb intake closer to 200…is this ok? Like today cause of food restrictions my first three meals was P and C chili 461 cals 47c 65p and 3f per dish…add an apple in there that makes it 70 carbs in a meal! Is this ok if the carbs are mainly beans and that apple? should I have the apple with my P and F meals?

well I geuss based on your cal breakdown 200 carbs would be pretty close when you factor in oats(I growing tired of them) beans and fruit…

Pugs, I can understand your getting tired of oatmeal. If you do, try having some Fiber One and fruit. Get the low calorie, high fiber one, though.

Have you ever tried steel cut oats? They’re chewy like brown rice! I under cook them on purpose. It’s an entirely different taste sensation.

If you get tired of cereal, make an egg white omelet with a bunch of veggies and a link of sausage and a sprinkle of cheese. Salsa goes great on omelets, by the way. (grin)

If you get tired of that, make it an easy meal with some deli meat, a swipe of mustard, and wrap it around a scallion or two. You can have anything you want for breakfast. Your first meal of the day doesn’t have to be cereal!

as far as apples go, check www.nutritiondata.com. A medium apple is 71 calories and only 19g of carbs, 3 of which are fiber (which doesn’t really “count”). Change the amount/size in the drop down window. Here’s the link: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20TB.html

Glad to hear that you’re healing!!! Epsom salts poured into a hot bath is another thing that helps traumatized/injured muscles. Epsom salts is just magnesium, and magnesium is what helps muscles relax.

BTW, if you are running out of money, make sure you’re spending your money on food before supps. By on sale. Go to Sams Club and Wal-Mart. I can get turkey for .69 a pound at Wal-Mart. Do bulk cooking in between your naps on the weekend! (grin)

Is 200g of carbs too much? Nope, definitely not. What we do is raise and lower the amount of carbs to fit the workouts and energy expenditure. But it’s not just how many carbs you’re taking in. The type of carbs and when you eat them are also considerations.

Tell me about your pre and PWO nutrition. Are you doing something like Surge pre, during and post workout? What is your whole food PWO meal looking like?

Pugs, do the best you can. I’ll keep pointing things out as I see them, and you keep trying your best. That’s all a person can do! I actually think you’re doing great and making some really positive changes.

Well Because of money constraints my PWO and pre WO is usually orange/bananna/pineapple juice mix and whey protein split between two meals…Pretty effdctive gauged by muscle soreness the day or two after my workouts…the addition of Pre workout nutrition has accelerated my recovery by leaps and bounds…

Hmm I wonder if steel cut oats and chicken with some soy sauce would go good as a substitute for brown rice?

Yes, on the steel cut oats with chicken and soy sauce! It has the consistency/texture of brown rice.

Do me a favor, Pugs. I know you’re on a tight budget, but go to a health food store that sells whole grains in bulk. If you work out 3 or 4 times a week (resistance training) and would need to eat a PWO meal with starchy carbs, I would ask that you have a different starchy carb at every one of those meals. You should be eating amaranth, quinoa, barley, steel cut oats, brown rice, etc.

By the way, wheat berries have a wonderfully chewy consistency. I cook them a little bit before I start my oatmeal, add the steel cut oats and finish off cooking the two together. Wheat berries need to cook a little longer.

Before I start into the pre and PWO meals, I’d like to say that I’m really an advocate of fruit. It’s a little bit artificial, but I actually tell people to eat 3 different types of fruit per day at their first three meals. But pre/PWO your needs are a bit different. If you can’t afford Surge, use Gatorade and whey protein instead. Another good option would be chocolate milk. Read up on Surge and approximate the C:P ratio as nearly as you can. Fruit, as good as it is for you, is high in fructose which refills liver glycogen. You need to refill MUSCLE glycogen, not liver glycogen.

You’re doing great, Pugs! Let me know if you have any questions.

Hey Pal,

How about a little advice from a guy who’s been 340-pounds, and 240 pounds (and now back up to 280 which Im currently fixing) FFB to be sure.

You eat an awful lot of carbs for a 300-pounder trying to lean out.

I know you’re getting a lot of sound advice from smart dudes… but I think you need more aggressive methods, i.e., get rid of all that danged starch.

Less focus on numbers, esp such a careful counting of fat mass and lean mass… your numbers simply aren’t accurate or consistent; ultimately it will drive you crazy(ier):). Instead:

a.Weigh yourself once every week, or two, just to make sure things aren’t going horribly awry.

b. Use the notches in your belt to track progress… and your numbers in the lifts.

I know a lot of people will disagree (on the coconut mainly), but I’ll be damned if a mix of coconut oil and fish oil doesn’t help me lean out like crazy. Moreso than just the fish.
Don’t be stingy with your fats.

I’ve got a few other things that helped me lost a bunch of fat too.