T Nation

The Democrat Debate


#1

Didn't see any thread for this yet, so I put one up.

I am not sure how much of the debate I will watch myself, because none of them have a shot in hell of getting my vote. It may at least be interesting to watch how far to the left the Democrat party has gone, with everyone trying to keep up with a card carrying socialist and all.

Thoughts before and after...?


#2

Didn’t watch the debate but the quick reaction I am reading is that the ‘experts’ and MSM are saying Hillary dominated, but watching party and polling of focus groups show Sanders winning. Nobody else mattered.

To me, that appears to show people in Sander’s camp, similar to Trump’s camp, ignore obvious flaws and only hear what they want to hear. I’ll be curious if it changes the polls at all, but it didn’t seem to change the narrative of the media much.


#3

What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!

From a semi-objective perspective, Hillary won easily and did better than expected. She did well on foreign policy questions. Anybody who thinks she doesn’t have a chance needs to take her more seriously.


#4

[quote]Drew1411 wrote:
To me, that appears to show people in Sander’s camp, similar to Trump’s camp, ignore obvious flaws and only hear what they want to hear. [/quote]

I’m going to say the vast majority of people on the planet are like this, about the vast majority of topics.

Look at the Casey Butt arguments here on this site years ago. (Which I’ve basically changed my opinion on from when I was involved in before.) Look at “tonewood” arguments on guitar forums… I’m sure you know the “Ford v Chevy” debate.

People have bias and it is hard, very hard to confront that, both on an intellectual level and philosophical one.


#5

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!

From a semi-objective perspective, Hillary won easily and did better than expected. She did well on foreign policy questions. Anybody who thinks she doesn’t have a chance needs to take her more seriously.[/quote]

I love this post, from you especially.


#6

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!

From a semi-objective perspective, Hillary won easily and did better than expected. She did well on foreign policy questions. Anybody who thinks she doesn’t have a chance needs to take her more seriously.[/quote]

Very good post, and agree. If Hillary isn’t derailed and rendered unelectable by the scandal(s), Republicans need to be ready to bring their A game.

She wasn’t perfect, but she outperformed. GOPers better not go into 2016 cocky and lazy.


#7

The touchy feely hippy dippy dismissal of her email scandal and the subsequent complete lack of follow up by the moderator was just nauseating, and something that would be red meat for any capable Republican debater if she actually gets to the point of debating with a Republican (and I rather think she will). I would LOVE to see her try to use the same dismissive line outside of this sort of forum.

This IS an important issue. Hugely important. All politics aside.


#8

It was a disgusting mess with each candidate trying to move further to the left than the other.

I will recap as I did the republican debate:

Webb- This guy made more sense than the rest at least on foreign policy. He is a former Vietnam vet who has absolutely no personality. Several times I thought he was going to pull a gun on one of the others. At least that’s the impression he gave. I found out during the debate that he was injured in the war I then felt bad for thinking those things because there is obviously something wrong with him. Speaking of guns, if someone put a gun to my head and made me vote for one of these jokers I would vote for Webb.

Bernie THE SOCIALIST- The democrats have fallen pretty far when a Socialist is part of their group of nominees. This is Socialism that we are talking about. Bernie has plans to give everyone everything that they want. He is a gift machine. The only problem is he will be spending somewhere around 18 trillion dollars while doing it. Where you going to get the money Bernie? Among other things, he proudly answers “tax the rich”. Well I have no idea as yet what he considers rich but I’m betting its less than most think. He’s not talking about just taxing billionaires. If by some weird occurrence this clown gets elected to the Presidency I will either sell my businesses, or find another way to reduce my income so that I pay nothing! Right now I pay over 50% of every dollar I make in taxes. If they don’t think that’s enough I’M DONE!

Bernie was at his best when he said that more people have fallen into poverty over the past four years than at any other time in recent past. I bet Obama hated that one.

Chaffe- He used to be an independent and also used to be a republican so I thought he might have a little more sense than the others but…NOPE. At least he was the only one with enough hair on his ass to at least claim that his past is “scandal free” I thought that was a nice little smack down to Hillary Clinton. He said this early on leading me to believe that more was coming, it never did.

O’Malley- He looked more Presidential than any of them. But then he opened his mouth and talked about how wise Obama is for playing it safe in the Middle East. Yes…if he only stood there and smiled he would have won in my opinion. He didn’t have the balls to attack Hillary either which was no surprise. I think the evil witch Debby Wasserman (we can abort a baby at 9 months) Schultz head of the DNC sat each down and told them what NOT to say.

Hillary (catch me if you can) Clinton- When Anderson Cooper brought up the the Benghazi scandal I watched her body language and it wasn’t good, slow blinking almost keeping her eyes shut clasped mouth. I could almost read her mind “oh no here we goy were out try to drive my poll numbers down bla bla bla…” Nice McCarthy you freaking moron. Glad you didn’t get the Speakers job and hope that you lose your next election bid!

As for the email scandal nothing came of that either as the old Socialist Bernie rushed to Clinton’s aid. “I think we should stick to the important issues and forget about her emails, enough is enough.” As the crowd erupted in applause. Got it Bernie you want to be her VP really nice job.

In general the entire debate made me sick to my stomach as each candidate tried to “out liberal” the other on the various issues of the day. As if that has worked well over the past 7 years under the child Obama.

“I’ll tax the rich to pay for those programs”

“the rich will start paying their fair share” (right over 50% federal, state and county is just not enough)

One thing I do agree with Hillary on is a no fly zone around Syria. The others attacked her for this because after all war is bad and we should never get in one…YAWN. Really?

I must confess I did not see the end of the debate. The entire thing gave me a headache and I retired to bed.

But after watching this charismaless group of left wing cheerleaders I feel more strongly than ever that it will be a republican year almost regardless of who gets the nomination.


#9

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!

From a semi-objective perspective, Hillary won easily and did better than expected. She did well on foreign policy questions. Anybody who thinks she doesn’t have a chance needs to take her more seriously.[/quote]

Very good post, and agree. If Hillary isn’t derailed and rendered unelectable by the scandal(s), Republicans need to be ready to bring their A game.

She wasn’t perfect, but she outperformed. GOPers better not go into 2016 cocky and lazy.[/quote]

A good friend who happened to be a boxing coach once told me that almost any fighter can look good if the opponent is bad enough…


#10

[quote]Cortes wrote:
The touchy feely hippy dippy dismissal of her email scandal and the subsequent complete lack of follow up by the moderator was just nauseating, and something that would be red meat for any capable Republican debater if she actually gets to the point of debating with a Republican (and I rather think she will). I would LOVE to see her try to use the same dismissive line outside of this sort of forum.

This IS an important issue. Hugely important. All politics aside. [/quote]

True, the McCarthy line won’t look as good especially if there is an FBI indictment awaiting her.


#11

[quote]Cortes wrote:
The touchy feely hippy dippy dismissal of her email scandal and the subsequent complete lack of follow up by the moderator was just nauseating, and something that would be red meat for any capable Republican debater if she actually gets to the point of debating with a Republican (and I rather think she will). I would LOVE to see her try to use the same dismissive line outside of this sort of forum.

This IS an important issue. Hugely important. All politics aside. [/quote]

Completely agree. “Enough with the damn emails!” No Bernie, it’s kind of important to know if foreign governments had access to classified information because Hillary Clinton wanted to keep her activities private.


#12

I didn’t watch either. Hillary will be the nominee short of an indictment or possibly Biden getting in so I didn’t see the point. Gauging from the responses on Facebook, it was a bunch of class warfare rhetoric and mumbo jumbo about guns. I doubt anyone mentioned the debt or spending since they all want to spend trillions of dollars on more government (Sanders’ plans are estimated to cost $17T over the next decade).


#13

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
The touchy feely hippy dippy dismissal of her email scandal and the subsequent complete lack of follow up by the moderator was just nauseating, and something that would be red meat for any capable Republican debater if she actually gets to the point of debating with a Republican (and I rather think she will). I would LOVE to see her try to use the same dismissive line outside of this sort of forum.

This IS an important issue. Hugely important. All politics aside. [/quote]

Completely agree. “Enough with the damn emails!” No Bernie, it’s kind of important to know if foreign governments had access to classified information because Hillary Clinton wanted to keep her activities private. [/quote]

Of course it’s important, and a big issue. That’s why they both played it off like it isn’t.


#14

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I didn’t watch either. Hillary will be the nominee short of an indictment or possibly Biden getting in so I didn’t see the point. Gauging from the responses on Facebook, it was a bunch of class warfare rhetoric and mumbo jumbo about guns. I doubt anyone mentioned the debt or spending since they all want to spend trillions of dollars on more government (Sanders’ plans are estimated to cost $17T over the next decade).

[/quote]

But will Biden get in unless there is an impending indictment of Hillary?


#15

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
The touchy feely hippy dippy dismissal of her email scandal and the subsequent complete lack of follow up by the moderator was just nauseating, and something that would be red meat for any capable Republican debater if she actually gets to the point of debating with a Republican (and I rather think she will). I would LOVE to see her try to use the same dismissive line outside of this sort of forum.

This IS an important issue. Hugely important. All politics aside. [/quote]

Completely agree. “Enough with the damn emails!” No Bernie, it’s kind of important to know if foreign governments had access to classified information because Hillary Clinton wanted to keep her activities private. [/quote]

Double agree. Hey Bernie, you’re the candidate railing against the oligarchy and the anti-democratic elite - but you get a chance to hit a homer attacking the worst example of lack of accountability and powerful interests working behind the scenes (Hillary’s entire email fiasco) and you say “look the other way?”

What clown.


#16

I think my favorite part of the debate was Hillary stating that Republicans would be against the “big government” of paid maternity leave, but that Republicans had no problem forcing “big government” to stop Planned Parenthood, as though removing subsidies amounted to big government.


#17

Bill Clinton in Vegas, any guesses where he was during the debate ? I’m going with the champagne room at the Spearmint Rhino or the Bunny Ranch. It could explain what happened with Lamar Odom.


#18

Doesn’t removing private gun ownership and totally redistributing wealth line up the aims of oligarchy of only a very few having all of the power?


#19

[quote]treco wrote:
Doesn’t removing private gun ownership and totally redistributing wealth line up the aims of oligarchy of only a very few having all of the power?[/quote]

[quote]TBT4ver wrote:
I think my favorite part of the debate was Hillary stating that Republicans would be against the “big government” of paid maternity leave, but that Republicans had no problem forcing “big government” to stop Planned Parenthood, as though removing subsidies amounted to big government.[/quote]

Guys, guys, guys… This is the democratic debate… Stop looking for logic.


#20

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
What a nightmare. Bernie with his Santa bag tossing out free stuff. Free college! Free! In-state tuition (i.e. American-taxpayer-subsidized tuition) for the children of illegal immigrants!
[/quote]

Dear Bernie