T Nation

The Debt Ceiling


The debt ceiling
Scheme, stonewall and fulminate
Americaâ??s politicians posture as a self-inflicted crisis draws ever nearer

Shame on them
The Republicans are playing a cynical political game with hugely high economic stakes

Perhaps the biggest issue we are facing now. What is your opinion? Above are two articles from the economist.


Meh, there'll be a deal in time. I don't think the GoP is as hard set on the anti-tax hike stuff as they're talking. Maximizing actual spending cuts, while minimizing the tax hike needed to make up the rest? Probably. There will be a hike, and there will be cuts. Maybe 84%-16%, nicely between the GoP report and Obama's figures. And hey, when considering the long term outlook of SS and Medicare (especially), and that debate, we haven't seen contentious, yet. There's going to be much bigger cuts and hikes coming down the pipe.


There will be a deal on this, but it will not be even close to 84-17. Obama will cave, as always. THE RICH WILL WIN AGAIN AND THE POOR WILL STARVE in the streets.

Just wait...


Anyone who condones raising the debt ceiling is an intellectual failure.


I'd say anyone who talks about lowering the debt 'ceiling' instead of lowering debt is an intellectual failure...in terms of economics.


Say hi to your uncle for me. Or was it your grandpa? Can't remember. There was allegedly a hammer involved right? Was it Kissinger's hammer?

Viva Barrientos!



Actually I just realised I got garcia1970 mixed up with Rohnyn. Rohnyn is the Bolivian American Marxist Nazi lunatic who feels sorry because the Norwegian massacre 'could've been laudable'. Garcia appears to be some sort of hardcore Commie who doesn't like Jews but used to be married to one apparently. I get mixed up sometimes. Sorry, garcia my comrade.


The author of the above article thinks that 65% debt is "perfectly affordable"(!?)
I suppose it would be...to someone who doesn't mind being OWNED.
As an American, I am embarassed that we have so much debt.

Just like a kid that runs up his credit cards like a pathetic junkie, the only way out is to cut the cards up, put your head down and pay the m'f'er off. And hopefully learn a lesson or two in the process so we don't end up in the same place again.


I was waiting for this. I'm a Commie now? Typical. You know, Jews were labeled as Communists in the 50's.

Didn't say I don't like Jews. I just stated the fact that they control our media and a large portion of finance and foreign policy. Also that Isralis engage in terrorist activities and that Israel has weapons of mass destruction.


^^Here we go again...the topic is 'the debt ceiling' m'lad. You prophesied in capitals(presumably for ephasis), that in the US the 'rich' would 'win again' and that the 'poor will starve in the streets'. You then respond with 'typical' when I say you 'appear' to be a Commie. Following on from this plethora of nonsense you then remind me(a Catholic) that Jews were associated with Communism 'in the 50's', however you fail to reveal the relevance of this.

Your last paragraph comprises a denial of anti-Semitism immediately followed by a tirade against the 'terrorist activities' of the Jewish state and Jewish 'control' of US finance, foreign policy and media.



And quite possibly stupid, too.


Why the fuck don't they stop spending money that a) they don't have and b) even worse on dumb shit like all of these bullshit wars?


Thanks for the post. I hope there will be a deal in time. And the numbers you mention seem fine.

To me, it is shocking how cankerous EVERYTHING has become. This seems like an easy thing to agree upon, yet even this (which has been done so many times in the last 10 years) will come down to the last minute. It's also amazing to me just how open politicians are about the jaded process. Listening to McConnell talk about the politics of it so openly is shocking. I feel like there should be at least a veneer of working for the public good instead of simply working for power.

As you mention, there are much greater problems in the pipes. I worry that we may not be able to handle them.


This attitude seems to be one of the primary ones preventing the ceiling from being raised. Could you please elaborate on your thoughts? I must admit, I cannot fathom what you mean by this.


While I'm not the author, I would guess he was using that figure in comparison with other nations in history and contrasting it with the self-imposed economic crises that we may be heading towards.

While I was against a fair amount of the "running up" that occurred, I think the decisions made by Bush and Obama were in good faith. Both were faced with extreme crises. But really, this isn't a thread about that, so perhaps we should leave it there.

Perhaps I am assuming incorrectly, but if you share the same sort of beliefs as Belligerent, could you elaborate on that position. It is difficult for me to understand.


Because these "bullshit" wars give us some control over things like oil and the petro dollar. Google it.


Except unlike that kid, if some one really comes to repo our debt, we will punch them in the balls and there won't be a damn thing they can do about it since much of the money we borrowed built the military that will fuck them royally if they get too aggressive. Not that it's right but it is what it is.

We don't colonize outright any more, but we sure as fuck do in economic contracts.


Wait just a minute! You are saying we should lower our actual debt and not a potential number? Are you intellectually inferior or something? Who actually pays off debt?

And, if we did lower our actual debt by cutting a trillion dollars in spending as proposed by the GOP in the OP's linked plan, and at the same time raised the debt ceiling, wouldn't that mean that we not only reduced our actual debt but also increased our credit rating?

How fucking terrible!


They give you the illusion of control for a very high price.