T Nation

The Davies Debate

Any thoughts? Does anyone really care that a few people from his past are breakin his balls now? I mean, if he writes good programs (which I think he does), then who cares?
And, what do these people wish to accomplish by these attacks?

IMO, I don’t care what a guy looks like, what language he speaks, what color he is, if he knows his stuff, then he knows his stuff.

-F’z

Seriously, I did his program for hockey and i loved it.

Just want to lend my support to Coach Davies. Got his Renegade Training book and used it for my rugby. Outstanding and fantastic.

What kind of trial has the accused being asked questions by a personal friend, with no one representing the prosecution?

[quote]doogie wrote:
What kind of trial has the accused being asked questions by a personal friend, with no one representing the prosecution?

[/quote]

I think the point is that the prosecution has already had their say on other sites and this is Coach D’s chance to just say his peace and forget about it.

From Charlie Francis’ site:

Well, here we go! As I will have no opportunity at T-Mag, I’ll respond here.
1: I have never suggested that John Davies has used my ideas! Hell no, in fact, and that should be obvious to anyone who reads his training methods or works with him. They are his and he’s welcome to them!
2: I have stated that he has claimed credit for Ben Johnson on more than one occasion and, as you’ve seen posted here, it is from numerous sources starting with the Green Bay Packers.
3: While denying that he claimed credit for Ben, Davies has re-stated his claim of coaching Maradonna. I was here at the time and met Diego, his brother, who was living in Toronto, and his manager.
Diego came to Toronto because he had met Ben and wanted to train with him. I had no involvement in the training although I did perform some therapy on Diego towards the end of his stay. I saw Diego regularly at the track with Ben and, while I was in regular touch with Davies, as he was a distributor for Musashi. I never saw him with Diego and he never mentioned anything about working with him, nor was he mentioned by anyone in the entourage.
The proposition that FIFA brought John Davies in to work with him is ridiculous and such a claim should be your tip-off.
FIFA is Soccar’s World Governing Body and does not arrange the training of individual athletes! This would be exactly as credible as saying that the NFL and powerful political leaders asked you to train a football player. Everything done for Diego was arranged by his agent.
Political leaders now? Is everyone still on board? Of course, it is always possible that FIFA and the “Political Leaders” wanted to keep “operation Davies” top secret, so the entire operation was transferred from Toronto to Area 51 in the dead of night.
How are you feeling about his credibility now?
4: Charles Staley DID publish material he got from me while visiting in Toronto (material he named Horizontal Summation). I was asked by one of his athletes to meet with him and I did so in good faith and for free, and I was shocked to see it in print as his.
He was given a number of chances to acknowledge where the material came from and he did not. I urge you to look up this work and read it for yourself. Anyone who has attended my lectures going back over 10 years will recognize it immediately.
I was not permitted to respond by T-Mag then, as now, and Staley’s defence was that he’s in better shape than me. Of that there is no doubt- but, perhaps if I saved time and re-cycled other’s work, I’d have more personal time for the gym.
5: Whatever positions I hold on training, anyone is able to post about their methods here. Look how often Berardi has been mentioned here. We also had an extensive thread about Charles Poliquin, but the guy who posted it contacted me and told me he was in trouble with Charles because he didn’t have permission to release it. For that reason and no other, I dropped the thread- which was too bad because it was very popular. It is not CF.com that censors debate.

[quote]Kuz wrote:

I think the point is that the prosecution has already had their say on other sites and this is Coach D’s chance to just say his peace and forget about it.[/quote]

That’s correct. Thanks.

Then Davies should reply on the sites where the accusations were made. It’s cowardly to only present one side. Allowing Davies to paraphrase others arguements is just silly.

i ran into a strange thing on another forum. after i reccomended JD’s teachings to someone, this guy went into a shrill personal attack on Davies, he wrapped up the rant by writing in essence that Davies knew nothing, and i should check out a certain thread on that forum, and one on the charlie francis site, which proved his point.

well i went to that thread and found only a general polemic against fitness “gurus.” i followed the link to another thread on the charlie francis site, but found the same thing and NO ACTUAL WORDS CRITICIZING JD, or even mentioning him.

i told the guy there may be a day in the future when JD’s advice fails me, but i kind of doubt it.

then the guy admitted that Davies was an excellent teacher, but “only” for strength, power, speed and work capacity!

at that point i was laughing out loud, and wondering WHAT ELSE Davies was supposed to be teaching.

up until today, when i read the ‘trial’ article, that was the only thing i heard negative about JD.

all i can say is some people are really out there. they read what seems like very straight forward stuff to most of us, and they think they are reading a secret message from the mushroom kingdom or something.

i think both cursory or in-depth examination of facts, shows that JD is an excellent coach. i have seen no evidence to the contrary.

[quote]Atomic Dog wrote:
Kuz wrote:

I think the point is that the prosecution has already had their say on other sites and this is Coach D’s chance to just say his peace and forget about it.

That’s correct. Thanks.

[/quote]

So it’s not really a trial then; more of a rebuttal.

Catchy title though.

i’ve got nothing against Davies. i actually have his football book and i’ve even done “the bear” once or twice. but there is nothing resembling a “trial” here. i’m afraid that this will only do more harm to Davies’s credibility as well as the credibility of this site.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Then Davies should reply on the sites where the accusations were made. It’s cowardly to only present one side. Allowing Davies to paraphrase others arguements is just silly.[/quote]

What the fuck is your problem anyway?

And let’s not forget, “trial” has more than one meaning. You know, like “trials and tribulations”, the “trials of hercules”…like that.

I didn’t notice Coach paraphrasing others arguments. I also think that Coach was a little reticent about doing this whole thing and got pushed into by TC a little (which I think was right), this would account for a little of his reticence.

And…if he could respond on the site that was owned and operated by someone who’s out to get him, do you think there’d be a problem? For Chrissakes, think before you type.
Or have high Estrogen levels affected your brain?

what happened to what CT’s and LL’s posts?

Yeah but people here cant read the responses being made over at the other sites…

Il Cazzo, do you really think that Davies writes good programs?
What does he bring to the table other than work ethic, which CT has already said encourages overtraining… His balance stuff seems very unfounded…He doesnt seem to be as good at developing strength as the other coaches… He has popularised some good GPP ideas though…

Im not trying to put him down or anything just wanting to know what he does that everyone likes…

[quote]Chris Aus wrote:
what happened to what CT’s and LL’s posts?[/quote]

They didn’t respond to the “John Davies on Trial” thread. They responded to the teaser thread we started last week that advertised the upcoming “trial.”

When we posted the trial thread we of course deleted the advertisement for it. It would be confusing to keep both on the board. CT and LL were asked to repost their comments in the new thread and I personally sent CT a copy of his.

BTW, we’ve already been emailed and told that you and doogie have this built up as a new conspiracy on other forums. Nice try. The T-Nation black helicopters are on the way.

[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
doogie wrote:
Then Davies should reply on the sites where the accusations were made. It’s cowardly to only present one side. Allowing Davies to paraphrase others arguements is just silly.

What the fuck is your problem anyway?

And let’s not forget, “trial” has more than one meaning. You know, like “trials and tribulations”, the “trials of hercules”…like that.

I didn’t notice Coach paraphrasing others arguments. I also think that Coach was a little reticent about doing this whole thing and got pushed into by TC a little (which I think was right), this would account for a little of his reticence.

And…if he could respond on the site that was owned and operated by someone who’s out to get him, do you think there’d be a problem? For Chrissakes, think before you type.
Or have high Estrogen levels affected your brain?[/quote]

The francis site is pretty much unmoderated… and hes been encouraged to post there…

Doogies problem is that Francis name is being used as a door mat which is undeserved. Buddy Morrison has stated unequivocally that Davies told him that he coached Ben…

Damn, so FIFA told Davies to coach Maradona? Does the NFL do this also? I mean, are they going to call up Thibadeau to train Larry Fitzgerald?

I don’t believe Davies has been honest about this whole affair. I also feel a little disappointed in the way TC busted this out: “We’re not sure why anyone would lie about claiming to train an embarrassing drug cheat (in the general public’s eyes)”

This statement coming from a website which publishes articles about the same anabolics that Ben Johnson used. It’s damn hypocritical.

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:
what happened to what CT’s and LL’s posts?

They didn’t respond to the “John Davies on Trial” thread. They responded to the teaser thread we started last week that advertised the upcoming “trial.”

When we posted the trial thread we of course deleted the advertisement for it. It would be confusing to keep both on the board. CT and LL were asked to repost their comments in the new thread and I personally sent CT a copy of his.

BTW, we’ve already been emailed and told that you and doogie have this built up as a new conspiracy on other forums. Nice try. The T-Nation black helicopters are on the way.

[/quote]

Me? Ive done NO such thing

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Chris Aus wrote:
what happened to what CT’s and LL’s posts?

They didn’t respond to the “John Davies on Trial” thread. They responded to the teaser thread we started last week that advertised the upcoming “trial.”

When we posted the trial thread we of course deleted the advertisement for it. It would be confusing to keep both on the board. CT and LL were asked to repost their comments in the new thread and I personally sent CT a copy of his.

BTW, we’ve already been emailed and told that you and doogie have this built up as a new conspiracy on other forums. Nice try. The T-Nation black helicopters are on the way.

[/quote]

I just read Chris’ posts on said thread, and none of them were disparaging.