I love this discussion guys.
I think one should look at the goal of the training, are you a competitive powerlifter, well then you probably shouldn’t do any rows or chins, on the other hand as I see it almost all big powerlifters says that BB rows helps their DL.
And a lot of big benchers says do rows and pull ups to strengthen the lats.
I would go as far as to say that even the phrase about “you don’t have to train abs and core if you squat and DL” has been proven wrong several times.
.
Is there any powerlifter out there that has never done a row? or pull up? or direct ab/core work? Maybe when they are world class powerlifters and even then I doubt it.
They may not do it like the Darkhorse program prescribes but I’ll bet they do some back and core work… (even curls, but everybody knows you have to curl to squat big).
I agree totally. I think a lot of people (myself included sometimes) get carried away while they’re in the gym. Many times I’ve found myself thinking, “I have a lot of energy even though my main lifts are done. I’ll just do [insert useless exercise here] for 5 sets of 10.”
I’m reading a book co-authored by Dr. McGill and Brian Carroll, and McGill quotes one of his friends: “Time spent in assessment will save you time in the gym.” I think that applies here. If you sit down and plan out each session, you should be including everything that you need. Once finished, trust your ability to plan for yourself and leave, even if you feel good. I believe Paul Carter said something to the effect of 'if you feel energized walking out of the gym after doing everything you planned to do, that’s just a sign that you’re recovering well. There’s no need to stay in the gym and punish yourself more."
I trust my assessing mind much more than I trust my body when I’m in the midst of that weight room bloodlust…“MUST LIFT ALL WEIGHTS, MUST SMASH, MUST MAKE GAINZ!!!” Junk volume is an easy thing to fall for, because it rarely seems like junk at the time. Lol
Agreed. There’s a time for pulling movements, and that time is not in between sets for bench/squat/deadlifts. Depending on your goals of course. If you want to increase your level of conditioning, then yeah. If you want to get stronger at the main lift of the day, just rest between sets and focus all of your mental and physical energy on it. Amen
woke at 82,1 kg - 181 lbs
Had friends over for snacks and G&T’s last night.
Rest day, nothing else happening here.
Woke at 82,1 kg - 181 lbs
Supposed to do OHP variation.
But was asked to join a friendly tennis match, so that was today’s training.
OHP tomorrow.
It’s all fun and games until someone gets hit by a serve 
Looking forward to big presses tomorrow
woke at 81,4 kg - 179,5 lbs
Not eating clean and can see and feel the fat on the stomach. Damn.
And summer has just begun. Well whatever, weak point to adress later.
@muskratlifts nobody got hit. And it was a great fun.
Yep, my stomach looks like crap. I can’t even flex and see my abs. 
I should start doing some ab work again. You can make your abs look better by making the muscles bigger (hypertrophy). They’ll stick out more and appear more defined without losing any fat 
My dynamic warm up has been taking 5-6 minutes. I could add ab circuits til I hit the 10 minute mark and not add too much time to my sessions.
@Frank_C we will lose a bit of fat right after summer. Then we will put on some more fat and muscles throughout winter and come spring “fat loss, ready for the beach training”.
Todays training
The Danish Vikings Darkhorse
W4D1: OHP variation 3RM
Warmup: Airdyne for about a minute, stretches
Dynamic warmup:
- SGHP 8 x 30, 40, 45, 50, 45 kg
- BPA 5 x 12
- Airdyne 5 x 30 seconds
- kneeling bottom up KB press 2 x 10
Complex: 1 rounds of
- bar x 8: DL, row, Hang clean, fr Squat, press, squat, GM, push press
Main Giant set:
- pull up 7, 5 x 6 + 3 x 4
-
Z press 5x20, 5x30 3x35, 40, 45, 1x50.
Volume - 35 kg x 10, 8, 8.
- Sit up 9 x 16
- Zercher hold 6 x 15 seconds @ 60 kg
Speed bench emom
- 10 x 3 @ 70 kg.
Assistance Giant set:
- DB press 3 x 10 @ 12 kg
- WG lat pull down 10, 10, 8 @ 65 kg
- DB curl 10, 10, 8 @ 12 kg
Bonus assistance
- dip 4 x 5@ BW
Done in 10 hour 10 minutes
Z press felt really good, was positively surprised with 3 reps at 45 kg.
Bench emom if I’m feeling better next time I’ll do 75 kg otherwise reset to 57 kg.
Had a bit energy left after assistance, so did a bonus assistance.
Man you are rocking those pull-ups. Nice work Mort. I’m curious to see if you experience the same improvement in recovery as the program continues
Thanks Hog, Pull ups I really suck at them when I do over 5 reps actually.
I think I can do one set of 10 and that’s about it.
Working up, nice and quite. next time it’s 2x7 some 6’s and then 4 or 5’s maybe.
Nice workout, Mort!
I’m not sure if I’ll lose much fat or not. I’m really struggling to dial in my diet since I quit tracking and loosened things up. I’m hoping to shed a few pounds during this CrossFit experiment but I haven’t really made it a priority.
It’s going to require some effort and I’m just not sure if I care right now
As long as my pants fits, I’ll a bit loose on diet too.
And trying not to care 
Hey let’s talk garbage volume why not? (long ranting post ahead)
I feel like an idea that either doesn’t get enough exposure, isn’t understood, or perhaps isn’t appreciated is the ability to perform UNDER fatigue. I believe this notion resonates with me (and most likely significantly so with Alpha) due to a combat sports background, and you’ll most likely see that with others with similar backgrounds. In Alpha’s case, it was to the 9th degree because, along with being a ninja, he also worked some scary military-esque stuff that ALSO required the ability to perform under fatigue.
It is absolutely true that fatiguing yourself in training prevents maximal performance. If you are super/giant setting between sets of heavy work, you will NOT be able to lift as much weight compared to if you did your sets and rested. And resting LONGER is better than resting shorter, for the sake of full recovery.
However, one has to ask: are we TRAINING, or are we practicing? This is a clear distinction that MUST be made prior to performing/analyzing training, because it significantly dictates the approach necessary.
If one’s goal is to lift maximal weight for a single rep, it is IMPERATIVE that they practice, and when one practices, they must practice PERFECTLY. This means long rest periods and no-fatigue, so that maximal performance can be achieved and replicated.
However, if one’s goal is to get stronger, they may engage in TRAINING rather than practice. When one trains, their goal is not perfect practice, but to instead become stronger (or faster, or better conditioning, etc. Basically not better, but improved at attributes), and this means putting oneself in less than ideal situations so that adaptation can occur.
In the case of performance under fatigue, one intentionally induces fatigue so that one can, in turn, learn to perform under fatigue and adapt to that stimulus. In combat sports, this is a common practice, with many classes starting off with an exhaustive “warm up” so that students begin training fatigued and work from there. Keeping your hands up is easy when you’re fresh; it’s miserable after 200 push ups, but the student that can keep their hands up THEN can surely keep them up when they are fresh, and then some.
The same holds true in athletic performance. Improving one’s ability to output strength under fatigue will improve one’s ability to output strength when NOT under fatigue. For some reason, the internet feels otherwise, claiming that it is IMPERATIVE for one to be at maximal ability to perform to obtain maximal gains (ie: pre-workout consumed, ideal time of the day, hearty meal beforehand, properly warmed up, ideal rest periods, etc), but a very rudimentary understanding reveals otherwise.
Say your max deadlift is 400lbs. Now, say I have you run a half mile and immediately deadlift afterwards. Say you can only pull 350lbs under that state of fatigue. Now what if we keep repeating this until you can eventually deadlift 400lbs under this state of fatigue. Would you reasonably believe that your 1rm on the deadlift did not improve during this time? Or do we understand that, the exhausted athlete that can match the fresh athlete will exceed him when both things are equal?
So what about garbage volume? In the context of fatigue generation, I think it does exactly what it needs to do: it fatigues the trainee. Throwing in garbage sets of rows, chins, pull aparts, squats, etc, prevents the trainee from getting adequate rest and forces them to train while not fully recovered SUCH THAT, when granted the opportunity to recover, they do better. That it can result in some additional volume accumulation, all the better, but in truth, for me at least, I see it as a chance to train being strong while tired.
Holy cow that went on for a while.
Hey man
I’ve been trying to put that in words several times, since the discussion began.
Thanks for putting my thoughts on paper (or screen).
I do like the giant sets, I do like doing some different stuff I never have done, like the Zercher holds.
And I can’t wait to see how I’ll perform when it’s time to test
That’s an awesome explanation. Thanks man
Excited to follow along in here! Some great lookin training.
Sounds like we’re talking about giant sets. I have to say for myself, I am not so interested in performing on the platform. However, as a small town volunteer firefighter being able to move hose, carry ladders, walk around with a pack on and maximize my air. I already think this style of training appeals to me and those goals.
Furthermore Brian talks in his deload video about how the stronger you get the more often you may need to deload and he takes a full week off prior to a competition to let himself rest up.
Anywho all in all. I’m a big fan haha.
So… When are you going to run Darkhorse…? I’m sure more than a few of us would love to see how you interpret and react to the program.
I won’t allow myself the amount of time to train to run the program. 60 min is all I budget myself, and with how the program is structured, I could not realistically run it in that time.