T Nation

The Culture Wars: The Radical Progressives' Agenda

Thought I’d start a thread to document the culture wars.


'Christians have been hounded out of jobs and their values driven underground thanks to heavy-handed courts, a former Archbishop of Canterbury has claimed. Lord Carey said Christians are being treated like bigots and face the same sort of persecution homosexuals were once subjected to.

In a direct submission to the European Court of Human Rights, Lord Carey warned that worshippers were being ‘vilified’ and ‘driven underground’ by the judiciary and state.

‘Christians are driven underground. There appears to be a clear animus to the Christian faith and to Judaeo-Christian values. Clearly the courts of the United Kingdom require guidance.’
British courts had failed to stand up for Christians in ‘case after case’, Lord Carey said.

And if the rules against wearing crosses and expressing beliefs are not overturned, Christians will face a ‘religious bar’ to jobs. There was also a drive to ‘remove Judaeo-Christian values from the public square’ as courts have ‘consistently applied equality law to discriminate against Christians’.

Last week David Cameron called for a Christian ‘fightback’ in Britain. He cited Lord Carey’s warning that Christians were facing ‘gradual marginalisation’ after Bideford Council in Devon was banned by a court from opening its meetings with prayers.

His pledge to protect Christians was immediately undermined by a document prepared by the Home Office which said Christians should keep their faith private from the workplace.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129593/Heavy-handed-courts-persecuting-Christians-driving-underground-says-Carey.html#ixzz1s0Izdvhu

‘Lord Carey said Christians are being treated like bigots and face the same sort of persecution homosexuals were once subjected to’.

LOL

Sensationalist gibberish!!..statistically speaking, a very large percentage of homosexuals have been PHYSICALLY assaulted (at least once) just for being gay…I don’t know of ANY christians who have ever been physically attacked JUST because of their faith. Laughable comparison.

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
Sensationalist gibberish!!
[/quote]

LOL. Yeah, the high church are big time social conservative zealots.

[quote]
…statistically speaking, a very large percentage of homosexuals have been PHYSICALLY assaulted (at least once) just for being gay…I don’t know of ANY christians who have ever been physically attacked JUST because of their faith. Laughable comparison. [/quote]

Yeah, risky behaviour isn’t it? Propositioning strangers, hanging around “bath” houses and “night clubs” and maybe public toilets.

It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
Sensationalist gibberish!!
[/quote]

LOL. Yeah, the high church are big time social conservative zealots.

[quote]
…statistically speaking, a very large percentage of homosexuals have been PHYSICALLY assaulted (at least once) just for being gay…I don’t know of ANY christians who have ever been physically attacked JUST because of their faith. Laughable comparison. [/quote]

Dude, let’s be real here for a second.

If a kid at school, let’s say the kid in question was 13 were to admit to beig either:

A) A homosexual.
B) A christian.
C) A Communist.

Which kid do you think would receive the most flak?

Yeah, risky behaviour isn’t it? Propositioning strangers, hanging around “bath” houses and “night clubs” and maybe public toilets.[/quote]

Yeah, risky behaviour isn’t it? Propositioning strangers, hanging around “bath” houses and “night clubs” and maybe public toilets

Have you ever heard of a fat girl/ugly girl getting beaten up just for eyeing up & or ‘propositioning’ a non-chubby chasing dude…NOPE!..me neither.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
Sensationalist gibberish!!
[/quote]

LOL. Yeah, the high church are big time social conservative zealots.

[quote]
…statistically speaking, a very large percentage of homosexuals have been PHYSICALLY assaulted (at least once) just for being gay…I don’t know of ANY christians who have ever been physically attacked JUST because of their faith. Laughable comparison. [/quote]

Yeah, risky behaviour isn’t it? Propositioning strangers, hanging around “bath” houses and “night clubs” and maybe public toilets.[/quote]

For FUCK’S SAKE

That’s fucking disgraceful and you know it.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Thought I’d start a thread to document the culture wars.


'Christians have been hounded out of jobs and their values driven underground thanks to heavy-handed courts, a former Archbishop of Canterbury has claimed. Lord Carey said Christians are being treated like bigots and face the same sort of persecution homosexuals were once subjected to.

In a direct submission to the European Court of Human Rights, Lord Carey warned that worshippers were being ‘vilified’ and ‘driven underground’ by the judiciary and state.

‘Christians are driven underground. There appears to be a clear animus to the Christian faith and to Judaeo-Christian values. Clearly the courts of the United Kingdom require guidance.’
British courts had failed to stand up for Christians in ‘case after case’, Lord Carey said.

And if the rules against wearing crosses and expressing beliefs are not overturned, Christians will face a ‘religious bar’ to jobs. There was also a drive to ‘remove Judaeo-Christian values from the public square’ as courts have ‘consistently applied equality law to discriminate against Christians’.

Last week David Cameron called for a Christian ‘fightback’ in Britain. He cited Lord Carey’s warning that Christians were facing ‘gradual marginalisation’ after Bideford Council in Devon was banned by a court from opening its meetings with prayers.

His pledge to protect Christians was immediately undermined by a document prepared by the Home Office which said Christians should keep their faith private from the workplace.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129593/Heavy-handed-courts-persecuting-Christians-driving-underground-says-Carey.html#ixzz1s0Izdvhu[/quote]

How is stopping a council from opening its meeting with prayers proof that Christians are being driven underground? Why should a public body open with prayers rather than doing council work? What benefit does that have? What about those who are not religious? Do they just sit there in silence?

I went to a Christian school where we had prayers every morning, but that was run by the Church so I accepted this because I was there on their terms. However, the church does not run this council, nor should it, though I believe it should have input into how things are run, like any other public organisation or official can.

Your slander against homosexuals is actually staggering. I’m shocked someone who can post so intelligently resorts to such base stereotypes.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact. [/quote]

In the spirit of the pot thread, I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.

No it’s not that homosexuality was illegal in the UK until the 60s, nor is it exaggeration of homosexual lifestyles that only a minority actually do (as seen on this thread) it’s themselves. Lol, reminds me of when I was called a ‘self-hating Jew’

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lord Carey said Christians are being treated like bigots and face the same sort of persecution homosexuals were once subjected to.
[/quote]

That’s like a KKK member complaining about being persecuted by a group of black people.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Lord Carey said Christians are being treated like bigots and face the same sort of persecution homosexuals were once subjected to.
[/quote]

That’s like a KKK member complaining about being persecuted by a group of black people.[/quote]

I haven’t seen any militant homosexuals killing priests by setting off nail bombs in Lambeth yet

reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Duncan_pub#Bombing

EDIT: Just realised, not implying that the bombing was related to militant Christians AT ALL, just using it as an example of the hatred against homosexuals that I have yet to see against Christians.

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

Do you believe that people who are homosexual are INNATELY driven to behave this way?

Do you believe that every homosexual man who have “suicide, anxiety and depression” is because of their “promiscuity”? Do you believe that every homosexual man who suffers from depression is promiscuous, rather than prejudice against them.

I’m not denying your statistics. There’s FAR FAR more to it than that though.

Because although I am aware of minority of homosexual men who engage in such deplorable behaviour, it’s far from the norm.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

From your source but left out: “Social discrimination and cultural issues: For some MSM, social and economic factors, including homophobia, stigma, and lack of access to health care may increase risk behaviors or be a barrier to receiving HIV prevention services.”
Seems relevant.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

Do you believe that people who are homosexual are INNATELY driven to behave this way?

Do you believe that every homosexual man who have “suicide, anxiety and depression” is because of their “promiscuity”? Do you believe that every homosexual man who suffers from depression is promiscuous, rather than prejudice against them.

I’m not denying your statistics. There’s FAR FAR more to it than that though.

Because although I am aware of minority of homosexual men who engage in such deplorable behaviour, it’s far from the norm. [/quote]

I agree that behavior is more of the minority. People like ZEB seem to base their information on the negative stereotypical views and only research facts that align with those beliefs.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

I am personally opposed to any discrimination against Christians , I do how ever feel they have changed in to the antithesis of what the Bible says they should be . I feel if they want to be politically active then they should pay taxes .

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
‘Lord Carey said Christians are being treated like bigots and face the same sort of persecution homosexuals were once subjected to’.

LOL

Sensationalist gibberish!!..statistically speaking, a very large percentage of homosexuals have been PHYSICALLY assaulted (at least once) just for being gay…I don’t know of ANY christians who have ever been physically attacked JUST because of their faith. Laughable comparison. [/quote]

Oh of course not, religious violence never happens in Britain.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13301195

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115984/Is-Britains-white-honour-killing-victim-The-happy-headstrong-girl-17-love-racial-divide-tragic-end.html

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

Do you believe that people who are homosexual are INNATELY driven to behave this way?

Do you believe that every homosexual man who have “suicide, anxiety and depression” is because of their “promiscuity”? Do you believe that every homosexual man who suffers from depression is promiscuous, rather than prejudice against them.

I’m not denying your statistics. There’s FAR FAR more to it than that though.

Because although I am aware of minority of homosexual men who engage in such deplorable behaviour, it’s far from the norm. [/quote]

Hey Bambi you can stop trying to circle out of the point at hand.

Here is the claim that I made:

You wanted studies and I gave you facts from the CDC to back up my point.

If you think that a figure like 61% is “far from the norm” then you are kidding yourself.

I stand by my original claim and you’ve posted nothing to refute it.

On a side note studies from the Netherlands where homosexual marriage has been in vogue for over 10 years and homosexuality is well accepted anxiety, depression and suicide rates are just as high for that group as they are in the US

Pick another topic to be politically correct it won’t work with this one.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

Do you believe that people who are homosexual are INNATELY driven to behave this way?

Do you believe that every homosexual man who have “suicide, anxiety and depression” is because of their “promiscuity”? Do you believe that every homosexual man who suffers from depression is promiscuous, rather than prejudice against them.

I’m not denying your statistics. There’s FAR FAR more to it than that though.

Because although I am aware of minority of homosexual men who engage in such deplorable behaviour, it’s far from the norm. [/quote]

I agree that behavior is more of the minority. People like ZEB seem to base their information on the negative stereotypical views and only research facts that align with those beliefs.[/quote]

No actually people like Zeb have taken the time to study the issue and have the facts at hand. That those facts do not represent your false belief shouldn’t bother you nearly so much as walking around with that false belief.

Now google CDC (and there are other sites as well) and get the facts on what, not all, but the majority of homosexual men do.

It isn’t pretty and you won’t see it or hear it in the mainstream liberal media but it is nonetheless true.

Now run along…

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Bambi wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It has been proven over and over again that the biggest enemy of homosexual men is their own poor choices. There is no one who can dispute that it is a fact.

I would like peer-reviewed sources on this. Because this smells like Billy Bullshit to me.[/quote]

I actually don’t blame you for your lack of awareness on this issue. If I had listened to the main stream liberal media I would be thinking the same thing.

Here is something better than what you’ve asked for. Here are the facts from the CDC.

It isn’t pretty.

MSM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the approximately 1.2 million people living with HIV in the US.

MSM account for more than half of all new HIV infections in in the US (61%).

The list goes on and on…It’s a very sad story. Homosexual promiscuity has lead them to not only ill physical health but a poor mental state as well leading every group in suicide, anxiety and depression.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/fastfacts-msm-final508comp.pdf
[/quote]

Do you believe that people who are homosexual are INNATELY driven to behave this way?

Do you believe that every homosexual man who have “suicide, anxiety and depression” is because of their “promiscuity”? Do you believe that every homosexual man who suffers from depression is promiscuous, rather than prejudice against them.

I’m not denying your statistics. There’s FAR FAR more to it than that though.

Because although I am aware of minority of homosexual men who engage in such deplorable behaviour, it’s far from the norm. [/quote]

I agree that behavior is more of the minority. People like ZEB seem to base their information on the negative stereotypical views and only research facts that align with those beliefs.[/quote]

No actually people like Zeb have taken the time to study the issue and have the facts at hand. That those facts do not represent your false belief shouldn’t bother you nearly so much as walking around with that false belief.

Now google CDC (and there are other sites as well) and get the facts on what, not all, but the majority of homosexual men do.

It isn’t pretty and you won’t see it or hear it in the mainstream liberal media but it is nonetheless true.

Now run along…[/quote]

It doesn’t really work when you ignore other parts of the source that directly contradict what you were saying. “Social discrimination and cultural issues: For some MSM, social and economic factors, including homophobia, stigma, and lack of access to health care may increase risk behaviors or be a barrier to receiving HIV prevention services.” I’m sure the highly trained epidemiologists at the CDC chose to include that in their fact sheet for a reason.