T Nation

The CRAZY-ARM Challenge!!!


"The CRAZY-ARM Challenge!!!"

i think this subject should attract a lot of attention.

recently, Dr.Darden make The BIGGER-ARM Challenge, based on his HIT methods, like slow reps,lots of rest, infrequency workout, and the goal is add 3/8inch to your arm.

i've gain so much from CW's program in the past year,what is CRAZY is i've come up with another Arm challenge:

1)high-frequency(week 9 ofP10 =for 2weeks for bi's & tri's)
2)higher-volume(combine P10 with CW's LFGB- only 4 other exercises per workout)
3)because of the workout frequency, less rest compare to Dr. Darden's challenge.

Diet will use CS's The Quality Mass Diet, Carbolin 19(1 bottle), TRIBEX Blue(2tab per day).

and let's see how that work!!
I think CW doesn't have time to make this kind of challenge, so i post it here.


I like your idea but I don't think it is fair to compare Dr. Darden's program to 2 weeks of CW's P10 program. Don't get me wrong, I've used P10 for arms and I think it's great. In fact I'd say it's the best specialization program I've ever done. I'm currently using it for Quads/calves and the results are great too.

The problem as I see it is that P10 (like any other program presented on T-Nation) is designed to work as a whole. By changing it or using only week 9 you just won't do it justice. Also, if one is not accustomed to HF training, I think that jumping into week 9 would be overkill. If you've been training arms with higher volume only once a week, switching to 3 times a week will probably work great. Most people will likely need to do the first 8 weeks of P10 simply to be able to handle week 9, let alone make gains from it.

If you really want to compare a CW's (or any other coach's) program to Dr. Darden's I think it is best to use their program exactly as it was designed. Of course some people will say that comparing a 10 week program to a 2 week program is unfair. True, but in the end as long as the program delivers results who cares?


How about this crazy arm challenge: Stab your biceps and triceps with a used fishing knife and see how many inches of swelling you get. One stab is enough-trust me.


Bob A is right - you don't just want to take a portion of P10 without the whole program. However, here are some possibilities:

Quattro Dynamo - Although the program is scheduled to go 3 weeks, I'd bet you would see some significant results after only 2 weeks.

EDT - CS usually recommends 4-week EDT cycles, but again I'd bet you would see results after 2 weeks.

Pavel's Russian Bear Program - This would be an interesting comparison because, like HIT, Pavel is somewhat of a persona non grata among the T-Nation population (although some of us here actually like him). A simple program based on frequency, volume, and heavy weights. There is no set time period to do the Bear so you could reduce it to 2 weeks. See Mike Mahler's "Customized Volume Training" article for details. You'll need to adapt the program for arm training.


I think people will realize gains from the big arms challenge simply for the fact that it is a switch from what most do. Like HIT itself, I believe it's best used for brief periods of time as a change of pace to higher frequency, higher volume training.

The design of the big arms program is not new. It has been around for years.


so what you're saying is that you're too cool to try it.

if it does work then just go back to your regular thing with bigger arms.

if it dosent work you have the right to tear it apart, and then go back to your current program.

why is the big arm challenge such an outrage?

its not new
its just swelling
any new stimulus will have an effect


so it'll work?

ill find out. then i can speak from personal experience. not that you dont have any.


I think you guys missing my stand point...

as Dr Darden said in his BIGGER-ARM Challenge, that's not a scientific study, just for FUN.

now how wrong is my "CRAZY-ARM" challenge?? just for FUN.....

then why not use 2 weeks and do some Arm specialization, but in the opposite way of HIT??

remember again, my CRAZY-ARM challenge is just for FUNNNNNN....


These are my measurments:
7/5/06, 7:30pm
waist:40 1/4inches
hip :41 3/4inches
forearm(R):13 1/4inches
Quads(R & L):25 1/4inches
Calves (R):18 1/4inches

ARM (R):17 1/8(the 1/8 gains from the practice workout)inches
(L):16 9/16inches


i think you misunderstand my point, my challenge is for myself. It's NOT i'm too cool to try it. just i've some more interesting, CRAZY ideas come to my mind. when you guys do it HIT way, why i can't do it P10-way?(
low-frequency,failure vs high-frequency,non-failure)


I agree with Wong - this will be more fun if different training methods are compared. This isn't about hating HIT or being "too cool." It's about doing a little not-so-scientific study on training methods for bigger arms.

Wong - I'll do EDT for the next two weeks. I'm also currently dieting and doing a fair bit of cardio. However, Charles has written several times that EDT is perfectly fine to do while dieting. I may get gain much because of the diet, but then again I may since I haven't done any serious direct arm work for a LONG time.



thanks for supporting me, i've try EDT before, even though i'm not doing it for long, but i still getting benefit from it. Hope you can gain, and may be you can take before/after measurments, photos, and your diet & supplementation too. so we can compare the results.


I will do an arm focus workout of my own for the next two weeks and give a measurement three days after completion. I am going to keep up my other training though.

Right now, measured the Darden way, my right arm is 16 1/2 and my left arm is 16 1/4.

I am also working toward a 400 pound bench so I will keep up with my program, but upping my arm size should be an asset for that anyway.


The following is my workout plan:

BarbellCurl 3x5 70s(P-10)
CG Bench 3x5 70s(P-10)
Smith Front Squat,Seat Leg curl,Hammer Strength Overhand Row, Smith Seated Press - 6x3 50s
Seat 1/2 EZ-Curl 2x15 120s(P-10)
Rope Pressdown 2x15 120s(P-10)

Day2(train at home)
resistant band curl 2x25 180s(P-10)
resistant band behind head ext.(Overhand)2x25 180s(P-10)

Machine Preacher curl 3x3 70s(P-10)
Decline CG Press 3x3 70s(P-10)
Deadlift,Standing Cable Crunch,High Incline Press, WideGrip Front pulldown - 5x5 60s
PM(at home)
Band Hammer curl 2x20 180s(P-10)
Band kickback 2x20 180s(P-10)

Day4(at home)
Band Reverse Curl 2x25 180s(P-10)
Band Extension (rev.grip)2x25 180s(P-10)

EZ Preacher Curl 3x10 120s(P-10)
UG Pressdown 3x10 120s(P-10)
Squat,Ly leg curl,lateral,EZ upright row - 4x6 70s
UG pulldown(focus on bi's)6x3 90s(P-10)
ly EZ extension (on floor)6x3 90s(P-10)

AM(at home)
band hammer curl 2x25 180s(P-10)
band kickback 2x25 180s(P-10)
PM(at home)
band curl 1x50 (P-10)
band extension(//-Grip)1x50(P-10)

Day 7 REST


As Chad said in his Perfect 10...

we need to train through soreness...

and i start experiencing soreness at both arms last night...


Ok, this should be fun. I look forward to hearing how it works out. Best of luck.


yes, it's fun, and even if it make me lose some size, it's just 2weeks only.

right now i've done Day 1& 2. i think i should up my protein for Day 3&4...because no gains...after that may be another changes if still no gains...


Just finish my Day 3 PM workout...
that means my 5th Arm workout of this week, 5more to go...
post workout measurment:
Right Arm: 17.5 inches
Left Arm:16 3/4 inches

arms still sore. but not too much. both my biceps & triceps feel very "hard" or "solid", not "soft&fat"

soreness doesn't affect my AM (3x3)workout. still able to train heavy.

How about others??i mean those who use other methods?


Yea I have no problem training heavy when I'm sore. In fact with sore triceps it kind of signals me to use them when benching.

Anyway, I took a cold measurement today before training and got

17 1/8 right 16 7/8 left, trying to measure very strictly, first flexion, the same way I did before. That's already up 5/8 on each arm and I've only done 2 heavy and one light/recovery workout so far. Also, I am using the creatine I had saved a while back. I don't usually use it so that would explain some of the growth.


WOW, that's a very quick increase in size, and only from 3 workouts! You really think it's the creatine? If I responded to creatine that way I'd always use it. Creatine does nothing for me as far as I can tell...

What did you do for those workouts?


Actually, I "saved" my creatine because it never really worked for me in the past either, so I don't think its the cause-but maybe because I focused on my arms exclusively for 2 workouts, maybe that's where it went.

OK-and honestly I'd rather wait until the end to give the program but here's what I did.

Saturday I benched wide with bands, did pullovers and shoulder presses. This was the day before I started.

Sunday I measured as accurately as possible cold and got 16 1/2 right and 16 1/4 left. This measurement had been fairly constant-I never had a cold measurement greater than this.

A) I did Closegrip lockouts with 315 and also some added band tension. 4 x 5

B) This was supersetted with assisted 1-arm pushups. I used two arms, but alternately leaned to one side or the other trying to keep the elbows out to the side on the way down. I did 4 x 10 here.

A) I did closegrip pullups but only the upper half of the ROM-from head to collarbone. I did 4 x 5 and finished each with a slow negative (about 30 seconds) but remember, only lowering until the bar was at about the top of my head. Supersetted with.

B) Lower half range barbell preacher curls STANDING. I used a safety squat bar in the rack so that I could do this braced form of curl. It wasn't really a preacher-more of a standing arm blaster curl. 4 x 5 slow and strict especially on the way down.

A) I did a special form of dip that is a little hard to describe. It was done explosively-and I stood on a crate so that I could relax/pause briefly at the bottom. I did jsut 2 sets of 12 supersetted with

B) JM press/closegrip bench. 2 sets, 10 JM presses at 135 pounds and 10 closegrip bench presses with 135 done non-stop.

A) Hammer curls done explosively 45 pounds x 2 x 5 supersetted with

B) The same pullup exercise as before, but done overhand for the forearms. 2 sets

Total was 6 super sets for biceps/forearms and 6 super sets for triceps. This took about a half an hour.

Tuesday: Light only

Closegrip pushups 3 x 20 and closegrip pulldowns 3 x 20 supersetted with about 2-3 minutes of stretching the bis and tris. This really seemed to have an effect. 30 minutes

A) 6 sets of the standing preacher curls going for max weight for 3-4 reps.

B) 6 sets of 1-arm pushups with no assistance 6 x 5 each arm.

C) I used bands for isometric bicep and tricep holds in various positions for about 10 minutes. About 30 minutes

Thursday I just did a personal best workout but bench pressing 3 x 4 with 305 in just 5 minutes start to finish. That's all.

Today I plan to go light and do some stretching again.