T Nation

The Covington Catholic Rorschach Test


So it seems you are trying to distinguish between “learning” vs “true learning”

And it seems that this “true learning” is actually to kill bad ideas - rather than to birth new ones

I am not meaning to say that it’s bad to do that, but you can only do so much of that

And the more time/effort you dump into disproving a hypothesis and still not being able - that tends to make us FEEL/act like we’ve confirmed our prior bias(es), without actually confirming them

That is how it seems to me anyways

So I don’t consider confirmation bias as an enemy or a thing to be combated, rather a thing to be cautiously and consciously worked with

Pointing out that a belief/idea has a foundation in confirmation bias says nothing about whether the idea/belief should be let go of, since all ideas/beliefs have such a foundation. Some biases appear to be more confirmed than others, and we tend to put more weight on those - but that’s just relative appearances

I would appreciate help with this, if anyone is willing/able

Salaam Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu


Nobody is perfect, there is just a thing about accusing someone of racism like that in a post - and then sarcastically saying a set of things that might tempt one to accuse you of the same within that same post…

I felt a pull

What you said earlier in the thread about a “cold civil war” (I think it was you) - I have seen it many times, clearly. I agree that we are at a dangerous place where we demand acknowledgement before we will acknowledge. It seems to not be about being the best we can, it seems to be about being justified in being worse than we were. I could ramble

I have found though that in order for me to “see” something in someone else - that is my perception. It may or may not exist in the other, but it must necessarily exist within myself in order for me to think that I recognize it.

I agree with much of what you’ve said in this thread

Salaam Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu


sigh it’s not even about racism or rap music for me

sorry for wasting your time


This is why the kid gets a total pass in my book. I’ve spent a lot of time in uncomfortable and tense situations and very few adults can handle them with the sort of grace and composure that would satisfy the legions of Monday morning quarterbacks in the national media sphere, let alone fucking Twitter mobs.

Just last week a guy I told to leave scared the shit out of me. He was a big, strong, violent biker. It was not a Swayze-esque Roadhouse moment of calm, collected response for me in the least. My heart was pounding. Who knows what my face looked like? Hopefully calm and cool, but inside my fight or flight impulses were firing off left and right. I probably looked scared, because I was. But I stood my ground, which won’t always look like it does in the movies. This kid stood his ground too, and it probably didn’t play out like whatever movie script he’s had playing in his teenage brain when he imagined himself being strong and virtuous when placed in a tough situation.

Here’s a hint. It never does. Not without a lot of practice at least, and even then you can find yourself in situations that terrify you and shake you up for all manner of reasons. The same night I told the violent biker to leave I had to put my hands on an irate woman. I did my best to move her out the door, I didn’t hurt her and I was able to calm her terrified mother down during the whole ordeal, but I probably had some rather un-photogenic expressions on my face while this was all going down.

Old First Nation men aren’t violent bikers or even irate alcoholic women, but teenage children aren’t bouncers who’ve dealt with a lot of tense situations. I’d like to challenge anyone calling this kid a jerk or an asshole to find a way to put themselves in a similar situation with a bunch of cameras pointed at their face. Let’s see how calm and composed you look.


Thanks for the post and thanks for the recommendations.

I gave your stuff a listen. It’s BETTER than just about all of the modern rap I’ve been exposed to, but still doesn’t push the right buttons for me. A lot of that is just due to age and what appeals to me as I move through life. NWA and 2 Live Crew were the shit when I was in elementary school because they were trying to BAN THEM! Of course we had to get our hands on it. We loved every track!

90’s rap was just the right sound with the right attitude for the right time in my life. It was new, edgy and you could dance to it. Great party music, and we partied to it a LOT.

Lately I’ve been into Greek space rock and old school blues. Naxatras for the space rock, Son Seals and Buddy Guy for the blues. They were my dad’s favorite blues men. That’s just where I’m at right now.

Regarding the rest of your post, the poster who has since bowed out of the discussion asserted that I would see the entire situation differently if races were somehow juxtaposed, and then went on to assume that I had no idea who NWA was or that it would be somehow offensive to me to see an NWA hat. In other words, he assumed I’d judge strictly on skin color and cultural flags being flown. He didn’t just assume, he was certain of it.

It’s debatable whether that’s racist or not, but it is most definitely an absurd assumption about me as a person. Maybe he assumed that based off of the ideas I’ve articulated. Maybe he assumed that because I’m white. I’m not really sure.

I suppose it’s debatable whether my use of “they” or any other choice of words is racist or not, but I come from a time where we didn’t really worry about people’s sensitivity to pronouns and that sort of stuff. Things were either awesome, or not, and somehow me and a bunch of other white kids from the heart of KKK country in Indiana were able to conclude that all of the rap artists I listed were awesome, that Michael Jordan was awesome, that Eddie Murphy was awesome, that Magic Johnson was awesome and that the Fresh Prince was pretty fucking lame.

Maybe I’m seeing my childhood with rose colored glasses, but it sure seems like we’ve moved backwards since then. I’m not saying that’s the fault of black people or white people, but seeds of racial discord have been actively sown in the last 10 years and I’m not convinced it’s helping anyone. That’s just one small element of what I mean by “cold civil war”. Maybe the same racial tensions were around when I was a kid, but it sure doesn’t seem like they were. It seems to me like those fires are being actively stoked.

You’re not. I appreciate you chiming in.


thanks man


It depends on what you’re looking for. For “mainstream” modern rap Eminem, Royce da 5’9, Kendrick Lamar, Crooked I, are all putting out good stuff still if you’re into lyrics/wordplay. People say Eminem isn’t as good as he used to be but he can still put out some insane stuff. Listen to his verse on Medicine Man and it holds up to anything from his “youth.”

If you’re wanting to dig a little deeper for stuff that sounds different you can look into some underground artists.

For my money the best underground rap album ever is Binary Star: Masters of the Universe. Shame they broke up after it but I still go back to it all the time. It’s a classic. Cunninglynguists are another really good underground rap group that has been putting out good hip hop for a long time.

I could go on forever with suggestions but it seems as if you’re hip hop days may be gone. It’s like any other genre though still good stuff coming out just not always popular.

I listen to basically every genre of music. Cracks my wife up when I can go from gangster rap to some acoustic Passenger or Stu Larsen and then put on some 90’s country before jamming to Chuck Berry and Tom Petty.


Couldn’t agree more.

Been around wrestlers for a long time and you’d be surprised how fast the guy who looks like Opie Taylor can take someone to the ground and choke them out. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover!

Also, appreciate the music suggestions in this thread, thanks for that!


Obvious confirmation bias is obvious


People are entitled to their opinions, especially about music. I was 15 when Liquid Swords came out. The entire Wu Tang Clan was like a cast of rap music comic book characters that sparked my imagination and made me feel like I had a connection with something completely different from everything around me. It took me to places that I couldn’t otherwise go to when you’re trapped in the cornfields.


I wouldn’t say that. I’ve always hated Eminem, but I can acknowledge his talent. His music just never resonated with me and never pushed any of my buttons.

I move around quite a bit musically. I’m on blues and space rock right now, but last year I was big into heavier stuff. I went on a Motorhead odyssey and explored a lot of heavy metal. I’m eagerly anticipating the new Tool album later this year, and I’ll probably listen to that a few hundred times in the months after it gets released. I probably won’t listen to anything else for quite a while once I get my hands on that album. Tool is in my Pantheon, my Mount Rushmore and firmly in my GOAT shed.

I’m still awake and still listening to Liquid Swords since I linked the album in my post above, and it’s brilliant. It pushes all of my buttons, not just for rap, but for music I want to put headphones on and actually listen to.

Perhaps that’s just because of nostalgia, but I’m still waiting for a rap album that makes me want to put the headphones on and get immersed like Liquid Swords does. C’mon people, clear that hurdle.


I don’t think you know what confirmation bias is.


First step: learn (the irony) what confirmation bias actually is.


It seems that way huh? Keep in mind you equated confirmation bias with learning…

I think it would be beneficial for the conversation for you to define, learning, true learning, and confirmation bias just so we’re on the same page

Not trying to deflect but I think we’re thinking of these concepts differently

To piggy back on my comment above, I can’t really comment on this until I understand where you’re coming from and we can agree on some basic definitions

Interesting perspective though…


They weren’t protesting when this went down. They had met at the Lincoln memorial to wait for their buses to leave.


Don’t make me stand still and smirk at you, asshole.


What kind of blasphemy is that? I used to angrily mow our lawn in middle-class America with Eminem blaring.


Hmmm… interesting

Did you have a step two in mind?


Awesome. Did you make up your own rhymes while mowing?

“Fuck you grass I’d rather sit on my ass fuck
being middle class oh shit this mower needs gas.”



Lol, that got a genuine laugh out of me. Unfortunately, no, I’m not that talented.


and with that attitude you never will be :wink:

practicing for when my son gets old enough to say shit like this