The Covington Catholic Rorschach Test

I mean, it’s not like he’s proved otherwise…

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I’ve got my best people on it right now.

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That Lizard people rule the world shit has been around since at least the mid-nineties, probably earlier. The first Lizard people book I saw was a ragged paperback with Reagan and Bush the elder on the cover.

My theory is that it was the original inspiration for John Carpenter’s awesome flick THEY LIVE, or was a genius guerrilla marketing scheme invented by Carpenter.

damn fine point…

I like the cut of your jib…

Those two statements are not related.

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RONALD WILSON REGAN? The anti-christ himself.
6 letters, 6 letters, 6 letters. 666. Mark of the beast.

Definitely the world is ending. We won’t make it out of the 80’s.

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I heard about this through some family members’ converation, and didn’t really catch much, since I wasn’t part of it, but immediately thought, “Wait, that kid’s an asshole!”

Soon after watched the full videos, and changed my mind. As a First American (never used that term - kinda like it), I honestly hoped that the dude hadn’t been part of the issue. Natives rarely make the news like this, and I honestly believe that since most of the country lacks a real understanding or a very realistic view of them, I’d have hoped that the occasional appearance was a good one.

Here are my thoughts: @twojarslave , like you, I don’t actually know much. Just give my opinion. Not as eloquent as you though.

1). Where the fuck were the adults? If the kids were there for a pep rally, where were the chaperones? How could the BHI have taunted them for an hour, if some supervision was present? I haven’t heard anyone really mention that, but if you’re going to get mad at the kids, you should get mad at them too.

2). As far as the stolen valor, I was under the impression that Nathan Phillips was still in the service. Maybe this is completely wrong. Anyway, I’d also heard somewhere that members of the service at that time, where referred to as Vietnam vets, whether or not they actually went there. Again, maybe that is completely wrong. Does anyone know? My grandfather was one (actually went there), as were several other members of my family. So, if he was in fact, in the service, then he at least would’ve been willing to go to Vietnam? (More than I can say about President Trump.)

3). I am a 19 year old male. As far as young boys, I just don’t think it’s an excuse. I’m young. My friends are young. Maybe we’re just unusually well behaved, but many of us have comes from broken homes, where addiction, finanical struggle, crime, and violence has been a big part of our lives. We respect our elders, treat people with respect, and tend to not do stupid stuff. If the BHI and Native man were at fault, than maybe the boys didn’t do anything wrong, but still, their age is not an excuse in my opinion. Anyone well raised enough (rich white kids usually have the resources for this) knows what’s wrong or right.

The kids were in D.C. for the March for Life. They were at the Lincoln Memorial because that was their gathering point to load on to the bus to go home. Adult chaperones were present. The “pep rally” behavior was in response to being shouted at for over an hour by the Black Hebrew Israelites. They didn’t taunt them back or say anything bad. The BHI singled out their black classmate’s and the boys responded by getting in front of them and saying “we love you bro”. Eventually Mr. Phillips started making his way to the children in his unusual display of heritage with entirely unknown intentions, while members of his group started to heckle the boys. This can all be seen and heard on the extended video.

My father’s grave says “Vietnam”, even though he never set foot in that country. He’s buried at a Veterans’ cemetery and the era of service ('64 to '67) is what’s on his grave. I was surprised when I first saw it, but that’s how they do it apparently. The issue here is that Mr. Phillips is on record calling himself a “Marine Recon Ranger” and video can be seen of him calling himself a “Vietnam Vet” and saying he was “in theater”. In this his more recent interviews he calls himself a “Vietnam Times Vet”, which, while accurate, doesn’t excuse his earlier behavior. He also never corrected the many dozens (hundreds?) of media accounts calling him a “Vietnam Vet”.

You seem to be under the impression that the boys acted improperly. What do you think they did wrong, and how do you think they should have behaved? What do you think the adult chaperones should have done differently?

I knew why the boys were there. I’m saying, if the BHI and Phillips were causing trouble, why didn’t the adults just lead them away? I think if they’d just walked away it would’ve been avoided the trouble?

Yeah, he should’ve corrected that. I’m not excusing his behavior at all, just wondered if technically Vietnam Vet was accurate.

Led them away.

He doesn’t think they acted wrong, but said they were children.

Honestly I don’t really think they did anything wrong. I worded my original statement wrong. I just disagree with calling them children, and excusing any bad actions, if any even happened.

Gotcha. I’m sure the adults were confused about what was going on as well. I’m sure they had no idea that their group was about to be targeted by a nationwide media smear campaign. They could have moved away, but not far. Their buses were coming.

If I was there I probably would have done the same thing I do when I’m working as a bouncer. I probably would have put myself in between the kids and the adults walking up to them and asked the adults acting aggressively to leave. That probably would have played out just as bad in the media. Probably even worse if I had my super-classy favorite t-shirt on.

It’s really a lose-lose situation that played on all sorts of racial stereotypes, going all-in on the color of the skin and not the content of anyone’s character. White kids in MAGA hats must be unrepentant racists. Wrinkly old First American dude must be a wise, gentle and righteous crusader. Pure fantasy, all to advance a narrative.

I’m not sure the Covington kids could have had a response that wasn’t going to be spun against them. Walk away and GASP, they’ve turned their back on Native Peoples. How dare they? Sing along with him and they’re mocking his culture. Stand there and smile, become the new face of white bigotry.

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Has this ever actually happened in the history of media? Genuinely curious

I’m not sure, but what just happened hasn’t ever happened before either. So I wouldn’t be surprised if it was spun that way at all.

Sure it has. Stupid encounters with protestors happens on a (literal) daily basis in America.

I was more asking if walking away from protestors has ever actually been framed that way by the media, because it sounds pretty fucking stupid to do so, and I’ve never heard of walking away from a protest going badly for the children walking away

Okay…now you getting into “spin-mode”, bordering on hyperbole @twojarslave.

Otherwise, you’ve made some valid points.

Walking away would have been a good response…but it looks like there were NO adults among any of the Groups that day.

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Really? We just saw standing and smiling, STANDING AND SMILING, spun as “harassing and mocking” while “surrounding and threatening” Philips, which is a total detachment from reality. Is it too far of a stretch to believe that a different reaction would not have been spun similarly? It’s just speculation, but I can guarantee you that none of the people there were speculating that Mr. Philips was about to go on national TV to tell his lies and the media would run with it without ever even bothering to interview anyone from Covington.

It is completely clear that Mr. Philips was intent on telling lies about their actions on national TV. I doubt a different reaction from the boys would have changed those intentions.

I disagree. They were there waiting for their bus. They just endured over an hour of abuse from the BHI. Now a guy comes up beating a drum, his companions are heckling them and filming the whole thing, and the kids mostly stood there bewildered. Where should they have gone? It couldn’t have been far, they had a bus to catch, and there’s no way to know what Philip’s group response to that would have been.

The children were the only ones acting like adults. None of the responses were out-of-line at all, given the circumstances. Even the tomahawk chop and chanting along kids seems fine to me. They had no idea what that guy was doing, so why not go along with it?

That’s what I was addressing. Standing and smiling has never been framed that way before, but here we are in 2019. We were supposed to have flying cars and be governed by an enlightened council of rock and roll elders by now.

Nobody’s Being Excellent To Each Other

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What’s the big deal anyway? A bunch of assholes acted like assholes but there was confusion as to which was the biggest asshole. Now it’s been sorted out and the assholes recognized in order of their assholeness. This isn’t the sign of the Apocalypse.

I’ve seen a dozen ways the media of both sides misrepresents people around protesters. I’m very very happy to be wrong given there’s a single example in history of walking away from protesters ending poorly in the public (or private?) sphere.

So yes, huge stretch. Most of your points are good and valid. This one absolutely isn’t.

You joking? Don’t treat them like they’re fuckin retards man. They just endured (your words) an hour of abuse from BHI. You genuinely fucking believe that while standing there on principle waiting for a bus, they thought this guy was doing some ancient ceremonial welcome the whitey spread love dance/chant? Don’t treat them like they’re fuckin Amish.

Bullshit. First off you’ve already acknowledged the smiling. I personally, as a guy much much closer to this kids age than you are, think he was smiling like a smug asshole in nearly every video shown. You also don’t know what was said before/during/etc that may have been reported to the news to be picked up.

Let’s stop treating the kids like they’re inbred and that the media is out to ‘get’ white christians. Most of the left is white and christian.

The right needs to make extreme examples out of this case. If the public were to focus on ever increasing heroin deaths, stagnant wages, or anything of substance that isn’t ‘le media’ they would realize that an overwhelming factor behind all of it was that it happened under immensely

Just standing and smiling

Just

image

Smiling

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Yep. I probably have a similar look on my face every time some idiot gets in my face when I’m working the door. My smile/smirk drops if I ask them to leave, but I’ve had plenty of people get right up in my face for a variety of reasons. That doesn’t always warrant removal from the bar. Sometimes they just want to sing some Journey to me.

Have you ever been nervous or uncomfortable when someone is inches from your face? What sort of expressions do you wear in those moments?

And even if it was a smug asshole smile, the guy got in his face, not the other way around. I don’t care what color your skin is, what sex you are or if you’re missing an arm, nobody should be expected to act deferential to someone who gets right up in their personal space.

That’s why I don’t think any of the boys behavior was fundamentally problematic. The tomahawk chop might be questionable in this day and age. My K-12 school’s mascot was The Cherokees, and we did that at sporting events all the time. None of the Cherokees who went to school there seemed to have a problem with it then. They all seemed really proud of their heritage, and most of us thought they were cool because of it. Maybe those are all big problems now, I’m not really sure.

Nor do I. They’re kids. Acting like kids. It’s obvious. But let’s not act like they didn’t get their rocks off instigating some people. I sure would have. As would virtually anyone our age.

But in the suburb I went to HS in, they had to ban blackface 2 years after I graduated because people kept painting up and getting into shit with the black kids when the inner city played us at home. So innocent things are actually abused to a pretty stupid degree.

Just spitballing, but I like to think they’d see a pretty blaring difference between what you’re describing and what transpired. Like apples and tomatoes