[quote]nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The “consequences” of capitalism are evil things like better medicine, better technology, MONEY, a job that your mom and dad can work at to pay for your tuition, and the ability to become an entrepreneur.
Capitalism has its bad points as well. It just so happens that it beats the hell out of the alternatives.[/quote]
Capitalism and imperialism are the only ism’s that have fueled the progress of the human condition.
Sure they have a bad side, but without them - we’d still be hunting out dinner with sharp sticks.
There is no Michael Moore feelgoodism that will allow us to move forward.
Sure they have a bad side, but without them - we’d still be hunting out dinner with sharp sticks.
Do you know for a fact that life is better now that we aren’t hunting dinner with sharp sticks?
[/quote]
I wish we still lived off the land. I mean no bills, no mortgage, total freedom. The way things are going in the world we are all going to end up aa slaves or prisoners. I am glad I am learning to live off the land. Have fun on the bread lines
[quote]nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Capitalism and imperialism are the only ism’s that have fueled the progress of the human condition.
Sure they have a bad side, but without them - we’d still be hunting out dinner with sharp sticks.
There is no Michael Moore feelgoodism that will allow us to move forward.
I’ll be a contrarian and say “rationalism.”
The merchant spirit allowed for one culture to learn from another. But that isn’t necessarily capitalism.
[/quote]
Thanks for being the contrarian. The merhcant spirit is fueld by…anyone?..anyone?..greed. To separate any effort by anyone to better the world from the desire for riches, or to further the kingdom of whatever empire would be errant.
Even the new frontiers of technology, and medicine are fueled by the desire to make a better mousetrap, and by default, more money.
I think I only wrote 3 complete sentences in this entire post.
[quote]rsg wrote:
nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The “consequences” of capitalism are evil things like better medicine, better technology, MONEY, a job that your mom and dad can work at to pay for your tuition, and the ability to become an entrepreneur.
Capitalism has its bad points as well. It just so happens that it beats the hell out of the alternatives.
Come on Neph, we all know Communism is the way to go.[/quote]
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Thanks for being the contrarian. The merhcant spirit is fueld by…anyone?..anyone?..greed.
[/quote]
Sorry, I should have been more clear about rationalism… mercantilism was a separate point.
The Greeks that advanced rational thought were already wealthy, so lucre wasn’t the point. As was the case with many of those who have provided us with the advances that benefit us.
[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
The alternative to “the corporation” is “the government”. Throughout human history, it has not worked well in providing goods and services to its customers.
DB[/quote]
How about nicer corporations, regulated by government law? Like, oh, I don’t know, refusing to allow child labor made goods be sold in America?
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
The alternative to “the corporation” is “the government”. Throughout human history, it has not worked well in providing goods and services to its customers.
DB
How about nicer corporations, regulated by government law? Like, oh, I don’t know, refusing to allow child labor made goods be sold in America? [/quote]
But, what if the child’s income is an absolute must for that family? Wouldn’t you be taking food off their table? This seems like a fairly common situation in the poorer 3rd world nations. Not challenging you on it really, as it’s certainly a noble ideal. Just wondering if sometimes it would end up doing more harm than good.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Thanks for being the contrarian. The merhcant spirit is fueld by…anyone?..anyone?..greed.
Sorry, I should have been more clear about rationalism… mercantilism was a separate point.
The Greeks that advanced rational thought were already wealthy, so lucre wasn’t the point. As was the case with many of those who have provided us with the advances that benefit us.[/quote]
I will have to disagree. I think that the sole motivating factor for the major improvements in our condition are due to greed, either for a crown, or for riches.
But you are way smarter than me, and I am not going to get into a situation that removes all doubt about my idiocy.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
The alternative to “the corporation” is “the government”. Throughout human history, it has not worked well in providing goods and services to its customers.
DB
How about nicer corporations, regulated by government law? Like, oh, I don’t know, refusing to allow child labor made goods be sold in America? [/quote]
By whose definition are you defining “nicer”? To me, it is far nicer for kids to make Nikes than it is for them to be turning tricks.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
The alternative to “the corporation” is “the government”. Throughout human history, it has not worked well in providing goods and services to its customers.
DB
How about nicer corporations, regulated by government law? Like, oh, I don’t know, refusing to allow child labor made goods be sold in America? [/quote]
[quote]AdamC wrote:
Just watched this movie and i highly recommend it.
I found it to be real eye opener. I found it quite distressing and at the same time uplifting, in that it is we that are part of the problem because we contribute to the profits of unethical companies. So it is we who can choose not to use them and ultimately stop the rot.
However the sheer number of corporations that do more harm than good is so high, and they are so pervasive, that it is a real ball ache to avoid buying their products![/quote]
I saw this movie the other day, about a guy that turns huge and green when he get pissed off. It really got me thinking about all those big, green, pissed-off guys out there. They can be dangerous and mean as hell. Might throw a tank a few miles or something. But they have feeling too man.
I mean, maybe their dads were real pricks like this guy’s was. I don’t know. Great movie, though. Just got me thinking about…truth.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Therefore, attempting to take work away from that child might just be a severe unwarranted punishment. And that Nike and other corporations who may employ child labor are actually doing these families a huge favor.
[/quote]
You must make the assumption that the people working in these factories are there of their own free will and actually being paid and not just slave labor. Children have no rights to their wages and that is a fundamental flaw. I would rather not allow child made products in this country because the system is too prone to corruption and abuse.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
AdamC wrote:
Nike are blatantly exploitative.
You can say that but you offer no proof. You sound like a starry eyed college kid.[/quote]
Just Google Nike exploitation and you’ll find plenty of examples. It’s common knowledge.
You have a point when you state that the people of these countries need jobs. It’s true, it’s better than sucking dick. But things can be done better.
If i’m the CEO of a multi-million $ company I can say to myself, ok, we can go to Asia and get cheaper labor but i can do it the right way. I can do the decent thing and look after my workers at least. Is there really any need to be so cheap?
I do have an understanding of the standard of living in these countries. I have been to Cambodia and Vietnam. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I’ve spoken to the people. They all want jobs. Let me tell you, the Vietnamese that I spoke to wanted out of Communism and wanted capitalism.
You sit and talk to them about how much you earn and many just can’t believe it. My problem is that these people are often desperate and are ripe to be taken advantage of, and that’s what I don’t like. sue me.
Again, i am not against capitalism because it’s the only thing that works. But at least try to do it ethically.
